Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#481

Post by honeybadger1 » Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 11:56 AM UTC

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #253

Larrikin wrote: post #224

If illegal immigration is such a problem, why not fine businesses 5x salary for using the labor, for as long as it was used? There are a lot of systems in place to verify working status at this point. It eliminates any incentive to hire this cheaper labor willing to work for lower wages. The people coming will be coming for a variety of reasons but it won't be to take the jobs of the uneducated Americans

LA is actively supporting illegal immigrants. If you want something like this to work, federal agents need to do it.

LA is definitely okay with illegal immigrants, but it's akin to a deal with the devil. It's a sacrifice on their part for cheap labor in exchange for the occasional burning down and looting of their favorite locations when the tide turns against their favor as it is right now. There is an entire economic system and mechanism of living wrapped around this blood-contract in states like California. The moment something threatens it, you see them out there burning, looting, basically being a terrorizer to preserve this system.

Looking at it from both sides, they are providing cheap labor to the bourgeois, taking a penance and it's agreed that it's okay, and now an outsider is coming in(trump and his administration) threatening that contract and they expect the state leaders to protect them, as they currently are with their inaction and posturing that everything is fine and safe until Trump opened his big mouth and showed force. The inaction and posturing not being effective, now they are out there punishing the elite for not protecting them by burning down the city they love, and love for them to work in, like slave labor.

Everyone knows this to be the case in LA, the argument is does ICE have the right to go in and mass-raid? I believe it does act in the interest of the state, but I also believe that no party has ever wanted to solve the issue of illegal but otherwise law-abiding people having a path to be legal, and that issue also should also be of great interest to the state.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#482

Post by fenomas » Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 11:59 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #412

fenomas wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent anecdote from Popehat, about the 1992 riots in Los Angeles: > /4 So “cover me” to the LAPD means “if someone pops up with a gun and shoots at me, shoot at them.” Apparently to the Marines it means “lay down a curtain of suppressive fire using your rifles.” Hilarity ensued. https://bsky.app/profile/kenwhite.bsky.social/post/3lr2w7wo3...

> Apparently to the Marines it means “lay down a curtain of suppressive fire using your rifles.” Is that supposed to be a surprise to someone? What do you think "cover fire" is?

The fact that it meant something else to someone else is, if you look closely, the entire point of the anecdote.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#483

Post by bombcar » Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 11:59 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #462

trashtester wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would not collapase. But it would shift some purchaing power from the middle class to the working class if all of them would leave, as working class salaries would go up even faster than the inflatino it would cause.

Our economy absolutely would collapse. Our entire farming industry exists because of heavily abused immigrant labor, and is a job that Americans refuse to take. We've made multiple swings and attempts at getting Americans to do this work [1] but it's low pay, low benefits and grueling work. Farmers literally could not afford the actual salary needed to attract people to do said labor, and it would cause food prices a…

Of all illegals disappeared Thanos-style, the end result would be massively expensive certain crops, and a greater dependency on machine-farmable crops, like corn.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#484

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 12:00 PM UTC

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #358

Because the CNN article seems to have accidentally omitted it, allow me to paste the full text of 18 U.S. Code § 1385, the Posse Comitatus Act: > Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, or the Space Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fi…

[deleted]

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#485

Post by ethbr1 » Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 12:02 PM UTC

Bender wrote: post #437

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #358

Because the CNN article seems to have accidentally omitted it, allow me to paste the full text of 18 U.S. Code § 1385, the Posse Comitatus Act: > Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, or the Space Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fi…

Active duty can guard federal buildings and federal agents. Not sure that is how they will use them. When I was active duty I assisted in multiple weather related catastrophic events and I am glad they did not argue against our use. We helped many citizens in a time the national guard would not have been sufficient.

For a better article on the legal distinctions: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/does-us-law-allow-trump-sen...

To fill in the negative side of authorities, Trump cannot use the mobilized Marines to enforce US laws (aka act in a law enforcement capacity).

As you said, they are restricted to protecting federal buildings and federal agents.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#486

Post by anthk » Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 12:02 PM UTC

the_gipsy wrote: post #445

kpw94 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> military forces exist to protect the country from existential threats — such as an invasion or rebellion — not to enforce the law. serious question: are Countries such as Italy, France etc not a democracy? All of them are, verbatim from wikipedia, "a military force with law enforcement duties among the civilian population.". Ditto for spain Guardia Civil, and many of the countries listed in that same wiki page: Alg…

Having police not separated from military doesn't invalidate the democracy, it just makes it easier to subvert democracy at some point. The spanish Guardia Civil is a very good example of a police force tied too deeply with the military. In 1981 some parts of the force attempted an actual coup, with one guy entering the parliament and shooting in the air (or ceiling). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Spanish_coup_a…

The Guardia Civil itself predates Franco, and to be fair some GC agents fought for the Republican side in the war.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#487

Post by pwarner » Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 12:06 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #233

Larrikin wrote: post #224

If illegal immigration is such a problem, why not fine businesses 5x salary for using the labor, for as long as it was used? There are a lot of systems in place to verify working status at this point. It eliminates any incentive to hire this cheaper labor willing to work for lower wages. The people coming will be coming for a variety of reasons but it won't be to take the jobs of the uneducated Americans

This is what Canada mostly does and it’s super effective, the problem is that the people who employ illegal immigrants: farmers, construction contractors, hotel owners, etc…belong to the same party pushing against illegal immigration, they would basically be punishing themselves, so it isn’t going to happen.

Exactly The aggressive raids aren't in Florida or Texas, or even California farm county, they're targeting urban areas, and getting the intended headlines.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#488

Post by Xmd5a » Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 12:10 PM UTC

timewizard wrote: post #330

motorest wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If illegal immigration is such a problem, why not fine businesses 5x salary for using the labor, for as long as it was used? The Nazis leveraged hatred towards minorities as a wedge to force their totalitarian control over Germany's state and society. They built up a ficticious enemy within, they inflamed society against that enemy, and proceeded to promise they would eliminate that enemy if the were granted total…

> they inflamed society against that enemy They blamed them for pre-existing social problems. I feel the important context was that the government had to be significantly dysfunctional for the Nazi party to even exist.

Hitler was elected as a dictator, at least in spirit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dictator

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#489

Post by techdmn » Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 12:10 PM UTC

jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #223

There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state. The other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.

Just watched a vid of LAPD trampling a person with a horse, then shooting them with what looked like a baton round at a range of 5-10 feet. That is a life altering injury, administered with direct intent, while the protestor was trying to flee. Holding my breath for zero consequences for unnecessary force. Not to mention qualified immunity. LAPD doing LAPD things.

How can one argue that the police serve the people? They don't necessarily even serve local government. They get a lot of federal funding and equipment, and in riot-control mode their purpose is to brutalize protestors until people stop showing up.

I also find it rather grotesque to watch Newsom argue that state and local police are perfectly capable of handling (i.e. crippling) protestors by themselves and don't need any federal assistance to do so.

Re: Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests

#490

Post by Cheer2171 » Tue, Jun 10, 2025, 12:11 PM UTC

daft_pink wrote: post #114

I lived through the BLM protests in a liberal city. They let them destroy everything, then they called in the National Guard to stop looting that already happened. Everyone’s okay with peaceful protests, but they should call in the national guard and prosecute people for violence. You might hate Trump, but in my previous experience, it’s the residents of the most liberal districts that suffer all the consequences of…

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