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The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

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Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#481

Post by jdelfuego »

freedomben wrote: post #427
DevKoala wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the cognitive dissonance true believers learn to live with?

Just my opinion, I think at least a portion of them have to learn to live with "faith" being the answer to some hard questions. You also don't have to look hard for doctrines that are contradictory. For example: was Jesus human or God? (and keep in mind that God is traditinally viewed as tri-omni, meaning omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent) Many times I've asked that I'm told "he was 100% human and also 100%…

Traditionally the explanation involves distinguishing between nature ("what") and person ("who"), which is the basis of the term "hypostatic union". There is one Person (which the gospel of st John refers to as "the Word"), which is of divine nature, i.e., is God; this Person assumed also a human nature, on the incarnation; and that is Jesus. This is what is meant by Jesus being truly God and truly Man: the one Person had united in himself both natures, the divine and the human.

I agree it's unfortunate that these kinds of questions sometimes get answered by inadequate metaphors or simply by dismissals. The whole joy of theology, while still requiring faith, is trying to answer these questions rationally.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#482

Post by CyrsBel »

lukev wrote: post #453
krapp wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People call Jesus a socialist because of the numerous times he commanded people to distribute their wealth to the poor and needy, help the sick, forgive debts and treat immigrants with respect and dignity. No one is literally claiming that Jesus was espousing some kind of proto-Marxist economic theory so much as pointing out that in the context of modern (specifically American) political discourse, Jesus would be con…

To add, not just Jesus, but the entire Bible. The Year of Jubilee alone, from the Pentateuch, basically eliminates capitalism as we know it (if enacted at a full societal scale.)

I don't think the Year of Jubilee would eliminate capitalism. It just adds a reset into the assumptions so that nobody is ever screwed. Instead, there's a reset available for people every so often. I also think the Bible says a lot about wisdom and how to earn a profit, not just in financial terms but in time management too. Proverbs has many examples.

So I would say that on the Bible, we'd still have free markets but with more guard rails so that nobody falls through the cracks if they're at least trying.

I do think we should bring back the Year of Jubilee though. Ironically, 2025 is a Year of Jubilee. I'm a big fan and I'm sure there are viable modern interpretations for it.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#483

Post by ecocentrik »

soared wrote: post #269
ecocentrik wrote: post #164

The discussion in Polymarket revolves around the trustworthiness of the market creator and their resolution criteria. Any discussion here that doesn't consider those things is missing the forest for the trees. The market isn't really about Jesus. Jesus is just the engagement hook. It's the reason this post has 147+ comments on Hacker News and $500k+ in market transactions on Polymarket. There's very little stopping t…

Especially good callout in the context of Jesus returning. It would look very different today, but there was one who was pretty damn close to pulling it off - would be curious when poly market calls the bet. Chatgpt summary - * Sabbatai Zevi (17th century): One of the most famous false Jewish Messiahs. He gained a massive following across the Jewish world. However, when faced with the Ottoman Sultan's choice between…

A willingness to die for his claim would be a meaningful addition to the resolution criteria.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#484

Post by CyrsBel »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #330
CyrsBel wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said he ignored the rest of humanity? That's not what the record shows. Most people know about God. Who said that in all the universe he chose just earth? You're assuming too much about the motivations. I do not see what the issue is with a "very human scale" for messaging. That's...how you communicate with humans.

> Who said he ignored the rest of humanity? People now know about god, but they wouldn't have 3,000 years ago. And it's only one particular culture that was being communicated with, or did the Chinese and Native Americans just ignore him when tried to message them? > I do not see what the issue is with a "very human scale" for messaging. That's...how you communicate with humans. It's because its messaging seems to ha…

They would've known about God 3,000 years ago. No, Chinese and Native Americans and etc did not ignore him. Abraham was of a pagan land when he first encountered God.

In any case, it was definitely communicated across the world. If you're picking a specific point in time when first contact was established according to a specific tradition, that might raise a question of why first contract there and in that way. But we in 2025 have the hindsight of seeing what happened globally after that and spread it did.

I don't think it is a coincidence that specific groups of people received revelation the way they did, when considering things like the quality of their oral and scribed history. Would you pick a region of people who don't know how to write and barely know how to talk, or a region of people who are highly skilled in both?

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#485

Post by dangus »

em-bee wrote: post #456
dangus wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is a manifestation of this weird double standard that gets applied to atheists/agnostics where they’re supposed to be burdened to “find answers” and it’s a problem that they don’t have that religious burden. It also manifests in this sort of insulted vibe that religious people get when their faith is questioned. Basically, it’s socially not okay to question the faith of someone in a particular religion b…

i expects everyone who questions any religion to do that search. whether they believe in god or not. if you question something, then it is on you to go find answers. even if you found your belief system that works for you. maybe especially if you found one you should always keep your eyes open and investigate your own beliefs, and not just blindly accept it.

This is still kind of backwards. The person who doesn’t accept something blindly has no obligation to question anything. There is no obligation to obtain a belief system. Someone who is agnostic is not blindly accepting anything.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#486

Post by CyrsBel »

wat10000 wrote: post #341
CyrsBel wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said he ignored the rest of humanity? That's not what the record shows. Most people know about God. Who said that in all the universe he chose just earth? You're assuming too much about the motivations. I do not see what the issue is with a "very human scale" for messaging. That's...how you communicate with humans.

“ That's...how you communicate with humans.” Right. Why would the omnipotent creator of the universe communicate the same way I do?

So that...you can comprehend the communication? Are you going to forget how to write or speak with your mouth when there is telepathy available and the next thing? Does Telnet still work?

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#487

Post by CyrsBel »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #397
ivape wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we sometimes bend down to look at a dog or child? To look them in the eye, at their level.

We aren't all powerful. We can't reach into their brain or ear to communicate. Supposedly God is all powerful. And doesn't speak directly to everyone, just certain ones.

Not everyone cares or listens. But the original point of the question you were responding to was that it seems strange that God would communicate with people in an intelligible or familiar or baser way. So being all powerful is irrelevant, because if we do it then why couldn't or wouldn't God do it? There's nothing wrong with communicating in the way that the targets in question will comprehend. That's the point of communication.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#488

Post by victorbjorklund »

michaelmrose wrote: post #332
victorbjorklund wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not "incredible" clear what ancient jews meant by that saying. Hence the wildly different interpretations. Are you really saying that it is incredible clear that the jewish understanding of the jewish saying is wrong and only your christian understanding is correct?

Half the planet either explicitly or implicitly believes in the just world hypothesis and America especially valorizes, empathize s with, and seeks to emulate the rich even when they do nothing to earn their wealth and on average do enormous harm. It is therefore hardly shocking that some fail to see the plain meaning of the language and their confusion needn't imply actual credible controversy. It is pretty clear th…

You have not provided any evidence for your claim that there is no connection between the "christian" saying and the prexisting jewish saying. The schoolars disagree with you that there exists only one single historical intepretation of the saying. You are just reading in what you personally want the text to read. Just like all fundamentalists.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#489

Post by jemfinch »

freedomben wrote: post #427
DevKoala wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the cognitive dissonance true believers learn to live with?

Just my opinion, I think at least a portion of them have to learn to live with "faith" being the answer to some hard questions. You also don't have to look hard for doctrines that are contradictory. For example: was Jesus human or God? (and keep in mind that God is traditinally viewed as tri-omni, meaning omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent) Many times I've asked that I'm told "he was 100% human and also 100%…

> Many times I've asked that I'm told "he was 100% human and also 100% God."

Does this surprise you? The council of Nicea where this was defined as the orthodox claim happened in A.D. 325.

> I'm sure different sects believe differently on that, but plenty do accept that. When I ask "how is it possible to be 100% human and 100% God?" you'll sometimes get answers like, "well it's like water in different for

The _vast majority_ hold that, because the vast majority affirm Nicea. The only major denominations not holding to the orthodoxy here are (in descending order of size) Latter Day Saints (Mormons), Oneness Pentecostals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, and Christadelphians. They represent approximately 1.6-2.4% of the Christian population.

> you'll sometimes get answers like, "well it's like water in different forms, ice, liquid, and vapor" but that doesn't answer the question

The real (orthodox) answer depends on a metaphysics of substance that most Christians, even those who hold the orthodox view, are ill-prepared to elaborate on.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#490

Post by acdha »

freedomben wrote: post #472
acdha wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus is a New Testament figure and very explicitly broke with the past in key ways. This is why his followers are not required to keep kosher, commit genocide, or abstain from having tattoos or mixed fiber clothing.

No, they're not required to keep kosher, commit genocide, or abstain from having tattoos or mixed fiber clothing because he fulfilled the law, not because he replaced it[1]. Furthermore Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, at least if you accept the New Testament as scripture[2]. [1]: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." --Matthew 5:17 [2]: https:…

Your first paragraph is repeating my point: Christians are not bound by the same rules as the Jews in the Old Testament.

As for the second, you’re leaving out the last couple of millennia of Christians debating the exact nature of God and fissuring into different groups over the details. Most variants recognize some difference between the OT and NT gods, however, because you have to explain the difference in their actions and instructions.

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