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Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

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Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#481

Post by jacobolus »

Balgair wrote: post #455
math_dandy wrote: post #28

I teach math at a large university (30,000 students) and have also gone “back to the earth”, to pen-and-paper, proctored and exams. Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. The administration, however, doesn’t like this trend. They want all evaluation to be remote-friendly, so that the same course with the same evaluations can be given to students learning in person or enrolled online. Online enrollment is a huge…

I think you've identified the main issue here: LLMs aren't destroying the University or the essay. LLMs are destroying the cheap University or essay. Cheap can mean a lot of things, like money or time or distance. But, if Universities want to maintain a standard, then they are going to have to work for it again. No more 300+ person freshman lectures (where everyone cheated anyways). No more take-home zoom exams. No m…

There are excellent 1000-student lecture courses and shitty 15-student lecture courses. There are excellent take-home exams and shitty in-class exams. There are excellent grad student teaching assistants and shitty tenured credentialed professors. You can't boil quality down to a checklist.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#482

Post by danielhep »

plantwallshoe wrote: post #477

I’m enrolled in an undergraduate CS program as an experienced (10 year) dev. I find AI incredibly useful as a tutor. I usually ask it to grade my homework for me before I turn it in. I usually find I didn’t really understand some topic and the AI highlights this and helps set my understanding straight. Without it I would have just continued on with an incorrect understanding of the topic for 2-3 weeks while I wait fo…

I’m wondering how the undergrad CS course is as an experienced dev and why you decided to do that? I have been a software developer for 5 years with an EE degree, and as I do more software engineering and less EE I feel like I am missing some CS concepts that my colleagues have. Is this your situation too or did you have another reason? And why not a masters?

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#483

Post by vacuity »

Super_Jambo wrote: post #265
Brybry wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instructors and professors are required to be subject matter experts but many are not required to have a teaching certification or education-related degree. So they know what students should be taught but I don't know that they necessarily know how any better than the administrators. I've always found it weird that you need teaching certification to teach basic concepts to kindergartners but not to teach calculus to…

Once you're an adult some of the best lessons come from having bad teachers.

Adult here; there are lessons everywhere, but people learn very differently.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#484

Post by kamaal »

Aurornis wrote: post #468
mrweasel wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that AI can do your homework should tell you how much your homework is worth. Homework is there to help you practise these things and have help you progress, find the areas where you're in need of help and more practise. It is collaborative, it's you, your fellow students and your teachers/professors. I'm sorry that you had bad teachers, or had needs that wasn't being meet by the education system. That is…

These conversations are always eye-opening for the number of people who don’t understand homework. You’re exactly right that it’s practice. The test is the test (obviously) and the homework is practice with a feedback loop (the grade). Giving people credit for homework helps because it gives students a chance to earn points outside of high pressure test times and it also encourages people to do the homework. A lot of…

>>You’re exactly right that it’s practice.

Thinking is a incremental process, you make small changes to things, verify if they are logically consistent and work from there.

What is to practice here? If you know something is true, practicing the mechanical aspects of it is text book definition of rote learning.

This whole thing reads like the academic system thinks making new science(Math, Physics etc) is for special geniuses and the remainder has to be happy watching the whole thing like some one demonstrating a 'sleight of hand' of hand trick.

Teach people how to discover new truths. Thats the point of thinking.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#485

Post by thomastjeffery »

ghusto wrote: post #374

I've always though that the education system was broken and next to worthless. I've never felt that teachers ever tried to _teach_ me anything, certainly not how to think. In fact I saw most attempts at thought squashed because they didn't fit neatly into the syllabus (and so couldn't be graded). The fact that AI can do your homework should tell you how much your homework is worth. Teaching and learning are collabora…

> Teaching and learning are collaborative exercises.

That's precisely where we went wrong. Capitalism has redefined our entire education system as a competition; just like it does with everything else. The goal is not success, it's victory.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#486

Post by thomastjeffery »

tgv wrote: post #478
ghusto wrote: post #374

I've always though that the education system was broken and next to worthless. I've never felt that teachers ever tried to _teach_ me anything, certainly not how to think. In fact I saw most attempts at thought squashed because they didn't fit neatly into the syllabus (and so couldn't be graded). The fact that AI can do your homework should tell you how much your homework is worth. Teaching and learning are collabora…

> The fact that AI can do your homework should tell you how much you still have to learn. The goal of learning is not to do a job. It's to enrich you, broaden your mind, and it takes work on your part. In similar reasoning, you could argue that you can take a car to go anywhere, or let everything be delivered on your doorstep, so why should I my child learn to walk?

Let me rephrase their point, then:

The fact that AI can replace the work that you are measured on should tell you something about the measurement itself.

The goal of learning should be to enrich the learner. Instead, the goal of learning is to pass measure. Success has been quietly replaced with victory. Now LLMs are here to call that bluff.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#487

Post by mathgeek »

danielhep wrote: post #482
plantwallshoe wrote: post #477

I’m enrolled in an undergraduate CS program as an experienced (10 year) dev. I find AI incredibly useful as a tutor. I usually ask it to grade my homework for me before I turn it in. I usually find I didn’t really understand some topic and the AI highlights this and helps set my understanding straight. Without it I would have just continued on with an incorrect understanding of the topic for 2-3 weeks while I wait fo…

I’m wondering how the undergrad CS course is as an experienced dev and why you decided to do that? I have been a software developer for 5 years with an EE degree, and as I do more software engineering and less EE I feel like I am missing some CS concepts that my colleagues have. Is this your situation too or did you have another reason? And why not a masters?

> And why not a masters?

Not GP, but in my experience most MSC programs will require that you have substantial undergrad CS coursework in order to be accepted. There are a few programs designed for those without that background.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#488

Post by storus »

math_dandy wrote: post #28

I teach math at a large university (30,000 students) and have also gone “back to the earth”, to pen-and-paper, proctored and exams. Students don’t seem to mind this reversion. The administration, however, doesn’t like this trend. They want all evaluation to be remote-friendly, so that the same course with the same evaluations can be given to students learning in person or enrolled online. Online enrollment is a huge…

Stanford requires pen & paper exams for their remote students; the students first need to nominate an exam monitor (a person) who in turn receives and prints the assignments, meets the student at an agreed upon place, the monitor gives them the printed exams and leaves, then collects the exam after allotted time, scans it and sends it back to Stanford.

Re: Trying to teach in the age of the AI homework machine

#490

Post by mathgeek »

username223 wrote: post #471
Balgair wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've identified the main issue here: LLMs aren't destroying the University or the essay. LLMs are destroying the cheap University or essay. Cheap can mean a lot of things, like money or time or distance. But, if Universities want to maintain a standard, then they are going to have to work for it again. No more 300+ person freshman lectures (where everyone cheated anyways). No more take-home zoom exams. No m…

Believe it or not, 300-person freshman lectures can be done well. They just need a talented instructor who's willing to put in the prep, and good TAs leading sections. And if the university fosters the right culture, the students mostly won't cheat. But yeah, if the professor is clearly checked out and only interested in his research, and the students are being told that the only purpose of their education is to get…

> though back when copy-pasting from Wikipedia was the way to cheat

Back when I was teaching part time, I had a lot of fun looking at the confused looks on my students' faces when I said "you cannot use Wikipedia, but you'll find a lot of useful links at the bottom of any article there..."

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