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Redis is open source again

antirez.com

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Re: Redis is open source again

#481

Post by amrocha »

rlpb wrote: post #405
blibble wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is the definition of Open Source is controlled by the Open Source Initiative, which has been captured by the hyperscalers which is sort of funny because the term "Open Source" was itself coined to make it possible for people to seek funding to build companies based on the (crazy?) idea of producing software, then giving away its source code 20 years later, the structure of the industry has now changed, an…

Take a look at Debian’s philosophy: https://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines This predates the OSI definition. The philosophy is about what empowers the user. Business models (or their challenges) have nothing to do with it. It just so happens that empowering the user also empowers competitors.

You wouldn’t use the ten commandments as your only moral guide.

The landscape has changed. Google, Amazon, and microsoft are actively trying to destroy open source business models. Don’t let the leopards eat your face because you were too attached to your ideology.

Re: Redis is open source again

#482

Post by fmxsh »

Not seen any mention of KeyDB... Maybe I miss something obvious, but it solved my small use case that would stretch to the other side of Redis pay wall. I'm very happy with KeyDB.

Re: Redis is open source again

#483

Post by Brian_K_White »

amrocha wrote: post #480
Brian_K_White wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"walking off with your money" This is the heart of all of these stupid takes. There is no "your money" for anyone else to walk off with. Nothing was stolen. If you want to sell software, or rent access to software, then just do that honestly forom the outset. And good luck to you on that. I will not consume it unless I have no other choice, and I will not contribute to it at all period, even tertially by for instance…

You’re living in theoretical fantasy land. Yeah, it’d be great if everything was open source and everyone was happy. But that’s not really what happens. Redis and Elastic are popular exactly because there’s entire companies behind it constantly maintaining it, securing it, and adding features. If you want use open source software at your job that’s a hard requirement. No, you can’t use “MySillyKeyValueCache” that Tim…

Then sell software. I said that first thing. Where is the fantasy in that?

If you don't understand it such that you think it's a fantasy (despite the ocean of existing software as proof that is produced, and countless published manifestos from people who do it describing why they do), well that's a you problem not a me or anyone else problem.

You don't get it, that's fine, then simply don't get it, and don't participate in this activity you think is insane.

You are free to have any opinion you want about what constitutes a rational use of your time and effort.

But don't pretend you understand something that the participants do not understand. We're all eating non-fantasy food just fine, somehow.

Re: Redis is open source again

#484

Post by theamk »

echelon wrote: post #367
lolinder wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we just did this whole ride with Elastic [0]: company changes the license out from under the community, community revolts, company gives up and changes it back. Both companies even pulled the same "it worked" excuse ("while it was painful, it worked", "this achieved our goal"). Neither company has built in a legal safety mechanism to prevent themselves from pulling the rug again later and both companies have sh…

This keeps happening: 1. People put a lot of work into building databases. The license choice is OSS / FOSS. 2. Some people in the community (original authors, community leads) make a company around the database and continue developing it for years on end. They sometimes raise venture capital to expand the business. 3. Amazon / Google / Microsoft offer managed versions of the database and make bank on it. Easily mill…

All companies should do this.. if anything so we know what not to use.

Any sort of proprietary product (be it fully closed source, source-available, or "open source with limitations") is always a risk. You were happily using database X, but they got acquired by Broadcom and now their product costs 100x what it was before. What do you do now?

That's why it is much safer to adopt open source - worst case is the company goes under, but you still keep using last released version indefinitely, and hope new entity (maybe even hyperscaler!) forks the code. Or make an in-house fork if you have enough resources.

"equitable source" license means it's not an option. That new product should really be much, much better than open-source alternatives to even be considered.

Re: Redis is open source again

#485

Post by bradgessler »

I got a really stupid email from Redis®* a year ago that wanted me to put a disclaimer on the “first page” where Redis®* appeared on a website, as if it was a paper legal document.

That was the very moment Redis®* died for me—I’ve never encountered a tech company that was so aloof about how tech works.

Hopefully that damage is undone.

—

*Redis is a registered trademark of Redis Ltd. Any rights therein are reserved to Redis Ltd. Any use by Brad Gessler is for referential purposes only and does not indicate any sponsorship, endorsement or affiliation between Redis and Brad Gessler.

Re: Redis is open source again

#486

Post by thayne »

lolinder wrote: post #248
antirez wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, Simon. I believe that cases like Elastic and Redis returning back to an open source license is like writing on the rock: "open source won", at least in the system software space. Companies get created, prosper and fail over time, but this message is here to stay with us for a long time, and shapes the society of tomorrow. It's a win of the software community itself.

It's a win for the community over and against the corporations that are Redis and Elastic. They're not the good guys for giving in to the pressure. They tried to ride FOSS to prominence and then extract wealth on the backs of the community and found that the community mattered more than they did. So sure, let's celebrate, but celebrate the community, not those who tried to pull the rug out from under them.

I strongly suspect there was pressure from within these companies, among developers as well.

Re: Redis is open source again

#487

Post by thayne »

cortesoft wrote: post #414
gkbrk wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I update my packages and suddenly an open-source software is replaced with a closed-source one, I would blame my distro. It's totally normal for distros to replace packages like this with the best replacement they have.

This would suck if you wrote scripts that looked for a process called 'redis' running on your machine.

I'd imagine the package would have a symlink for redis that points to valkey

Re: Redis is open source again

#488

Post by theamk »

blibble wrote: post #444
_msw_ wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because a big company like Amazon has produced almost no open source work This may have been true a decade ago, but things are quite different now. > compared to how much it has benefited from open source. This is the nature of digital public goods. We are all going to disproportionately benefit from digital public goods relative to what can be produced as new digital public goods. No one will ever, EVER be able to…

> No one will ever, EVER be able to "contribute proportionately" given the endless bounty of software made freely available for all to use. so it sounds like we need a license mechanism that enforces this, fairly, based on potential ability to contribute idea: a benchmark to give a required level of contributions, maybe a logistic function of revenue generated/company size and time since initial usage and if you fall…

Just make it closed source (or source-available) and give out no-cost licenses how you see fit. You are the author, you decide what to do with your code. This is a well-supported model too, plenty of products are like that.

There are plenty of licenses around, lack of alternatives isn't why people use MIT or Apache.

Re: Redis is open source again

#489

Post by throwaway2037 »

dharmab wrote: post #223
homebrewer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only real reason to use non-copyleft licenses for these kinds of projects is to be able to do the rug pull, so you should have expected it instead of feeling betrayed. I imagine they will now require copyright assignment or something like that for external contributors to be able to relicense new code under a commercial license.

There are good legal reasons to avoid the GPL; there are open legal questions about whether the GPL and its variants are enforceable.

    > there are open legal questions about whether the GPL and its variants are enforceable.
At this point in history, there are multiple legal cases where GPL violators were taken to court and lost or settled. See: BusyBox and Linksys/OpenWrt.

GPL v3 also has a nice clause that allows companies to "repair/cure" their non-compliance.

    > Moreover, your license from a particular copyright holder is reinstated permanently if the copyright holder notifies you of the violation by some reasonable means, this is the first time you have received notice of violation of this License (for any work) from that copyright holder, and you cure the violation prior to 30 days after your receipt of the notice.
Red Hat also has a good blog post about their view of using the legal system to enforce compliance: https://www.redhat.com/ja/about/gplv3-enforcement-statement

Re: Redis is open source again

#490

Post by theamk »

echelon wrote: post #174
tough wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad as an open source lover how money fucks it all

If you open source something, the rich trillion dollar companies just steal it. If you're okay with that, that's cool. But they'll profit off of your work and labor. And the worst part is that at scale, the advantages of the sum total of open source is used to compete with you and put price pressure on your salary and career options. To rephrase that, the hyperscalers are in a position to leverage open source to take…

Open source with anti-Google/Amazon/Microsoft clauses is called AGPL.

And yet somehow people keep making new projects under MIT license.

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