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Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

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Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#481

Post by graemep »

torginus wrote: post #442

I just don't get how Adobe didn't get dethroned after being so unpopular for so long. There are so many Photoshop competitors, many of which are quite good, they seem to be ripe for disruption. The last version I used was CS6, which came out more than a decade ago, and even that had more than a good enough feature set. Blender is slowly taking over 3D, why can't 2D be disrupted similarly?

That is how free market capitalism is supposed to work.

If you do not like products you switch to a competitor. That is the fundamental assumption on which the system is built

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#482

Post by Juliate »

squigz wrote: post #476
b112 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think all artists are treating this tool as such an existential threat. You cannot find any group, where "all" is true in such context. There's always an element of outlier. That said, you're not really an artist if you direct someone else to paint. Imagine a scenario where you sit back, and ask someone to paint an oil painting for you. During the event, you sit in an easy chair, watch them with easel and bru…

One could say much the same thing about photographers, or digital artists. They don't use paint, or sculpt marble, so they're not real artists.

Who talked about "real" here?

Photographers do manipulate cameras, and rework afterwise the images to develop.

Digital artists do manipulate digital tools.

Their output is a large function of their informed input, experience, taste, knowledge, practice and intention, using their own specific tools in their own way.

Same with developers: the result is a function of their input (architecture, code, etc.). Garbage in, garbage out.

With AI prompters, the output is part function of the (very small) prompt, part function of the (huuuuuuuge) training set, part randomness.

If you're the director of a movie, or of a photo shoot, you're the director. Not the photographer, not the set painter, not the carpenter, not the light, etc.

If you're the producer, you're not the artist (unless you _also_ act as an artist in the production).

Do you feel the difference?

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#483

Post by bdangubic »

oreally wrote: post #445
torginus wrote: post #442

I just don't get how Adobe didn't get dethroned after being so unpopular for so long. There are so many Photoshop competitors, many of which are quite good, they seem to be ripe for disruption. The last version I used was CS6, which came out more than a decade ago, and even that had more than a good enough feature set. Blender is slowly taking over 3D, why can't 2D be disrupted similarly?

I'm pretty sure it's because just about every applicable art school has enforced their student's output to be done in adobe's products - meaning that Adobe has a firm grip on the educator's market. As the saying goes, hook them in when they're young and they'll be too lazy and vested to move away from their products for a lifetime.

To a degree, Oracle was doing the same thing. Years ago I was teaching Data Science courses at the local Uni and Dean pulled me in and asked me if I can teach Introductory course in Web Dev, the current teacher was going on maternity leave. I was like heck yea, LFG. Student reaches out to me few days before the quarter was to start and asks if they need to buy the book since it is $285 (like $500 in today’s dollars). I was taken aback and went to my office and book was actually at my desk, “web development with oracle forms” … :) that was the course that was thought… (I didn’t of course - that was the last quarter I was asked :) )

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#484

Post by reisse »

r33b33 wrote: post #452
devsda wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> actually an "annual plan, billed monthly" and thus that if they cancel after one month (for example) they'll be billed for the remaining 11 immediately I don't know if this is a recent policy change, but it is not the complete amount but only 50% of the remaining annual amount as per their website[1]. If it were something involving physical goods or services I can understand, but 50% penalty is still a crazy amount…

That's why you always use throwaway cards for this.

Of course it's highly unlikely they'll go in court for a single user, but if everyone starts doing this, they'll sue. It doesn't matter the payment failed, you still legally owe Adobe (or any other service) money.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#485

Post by xeonmc »

fxtentacle wrote: post #168
nonchalantsui wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For their pricing and subscription practices alone, they deserve far more backlash than they get.

I would describe my business relationship with Adobe as: "hostage" They annually harass me with licensing checks and questionnaires because they really hate you if you run Photoshop inside a VM (my daily driver is Linux), although it is explicitly allowed. Luckily, I don't need the Adobe software that often. But they hold a lot of important old company documents hostage in their proprietary file formats. So I can't c…

Have you seen the recently posted video "For Profit (Creative) Software"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4mdMMu-3fc

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#486

Post by croes »

reisse wrote: post #484
r33b33 wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you always use throwaway cards for this.

Of course it's highly unlikely they'll go in court for a single user, but if everyone starts doing this, they'll sue. It doesn't matter the payment failed, you still legally owe Adobe (or any other service) money.

They could lose because of unfair business practices.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#487

Post by lancebeet »

furyofantares wrote: post #346
Sir_Twist wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that is a bit of an ungenerous characterization. Is it possible that it could be both? That while artists maybe do feel under attack in terms of competition, that there is a genuine ethical dilemma at hand? If I were an artist, and I made a painting and published it to a site which was then used to train an LLM, I would feel as though the AI company treated me disingenuously, regardless of competition or not.…

I've never seen anyone make the complaint about image classifiers or image segmentation. It's only for generative models and only once they got good enough to be useful.

I'm not entirely convinced by the artists' argument, but this argument is also unconvincing to me. If someone steals from you, but it's a negligible amount, or you don't even notice it, does that make it not stealing? If the thief then starts selling the things they stole from you, directly competing with you, are your grievances less valid now since you didn't complain about the theft before?

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#488

Post by maccard »

55555 wrote: post #363

Adobe runs what must be one of the largest deceptive rebills. The vast majority of users signing up for a monthly plan do not realize that it is actually an "annual plan, billed monthly" and thus that if they cancel after one month (for example) they'll be billed for the remaining 11 immediately. I honestly don't know how they haven't faced FTC action for this, as it's been their primary model for 5-10 years now.

I don’t get it, honestly. It’s very clear. You get a discount for an annual commitment and they let you pay monthly. It’s super clear which you’re signing up for when you do it. I’m in the UK, and there’s a 14 day cooling off period on the plans too, unless you buy the full blown annual one.

I’m no adobe supporter generally, and sure they could do more, but they take an awful lot of flak for people who won’t read two lines of text and then scream bloody murder.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#489

Post by maccard »

liendolucas wrote: post #471
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's still not great. The annual/monthly plan says: >Annual, billed monthly >US$22.99/mo >Fee applies if you cancel after 14 days There's a popup you can open with more information, but that just says: >If you cancel after 14 days, your service will continue until the end of that month's billing period, and you will be charged an early termination fee. It doesn't tell you anywhere what that fee is, and I can'…

Fee application for cancelling a subscription service should be absolutely illegal.

It’s a fee for cancelling an annual subscription that you agreed to.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#490

Post by maccard »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #433
sanswork wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just went back through the sign up process to check and it seems pretty obvious these days? I got three options at checkout annual billed monthly, monthly, annual. I hate annual billed monthly but the wording isn't hidden.

I think it's still not great. The annual/monthly plan says: >Annual, billed monthly >US$22.99/mo >Fee applies if you cancel after 14 days There's a popup you can open with more information, but that just says: >If you cancel after 14 days, your service will continue until the end of that month's billing period, and you will be charged an early termination fee. It doesn't tell you anywhere what that fee is, and I can'…

It’s 50% of the remaining balance. I do agree that should be listed there.
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