Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–490 of 1001 posts

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#481

Post by kleiba »

hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

I lived in Germany for a while. There, the water that comes out of your tab doesn't get fluorized. Instead, they add fluoride to tooth paste.

So, is Germany less free or more free?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#482

Post by karparov »

jvm___ wrote: post #465
kvdveer wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"freedom from", you will not be given a prevention from some horrible disease. You can buy it if you can afford it, but a significant portion of the population can't, and some of them will not be able to enjoy life because of it. "freedom to", a prevention will be provided. You can always decide to take alternatives, if you can afford it. A significant portion of the population can't. They will be able to enjoy life.…

How free a country is can be determined by this question. Would you choose to be a randomly chosen citizen? You could be anyone in that country with all the rights, privileges - or lack thereof - that that random person has. I think I'd rather be a random Canadian with healthcare and education than a random American. It's an interesting thought experiment.

As a random US citizen, chances are high though that you voted Trump and are ok with all this nonsense. So, should be ok?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#483

Post by chrz »

concordDance wrote: post #449
hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

The UK government is really big on doing things for our own good, but they don't seem to do much water flouridation. Which I think is some evidence that it's not a clearcut health benefit.

Uk is one of the unhealthiest countries

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#484

Post by Xelynega »

kleiba wrote: post #481
hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

I lived in Germany for a while. There, the water that comes out of your tab doesn't get fluorized. Instead, they add fluoride to tooth paste. So, is Germany less free or more free?

I think you missed the point of "positive" versus "negative" freedoms.

They have more of one, less of the other.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#485

Post by sambeau »

jvm___ wrote: post #465
kvdveer wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"freedom from", you will not be given a prevention from some horrible disease. You can buy it if you can afford it, but a significant portion of the population can't, and some of them will not be able to enjoy life because of it. "freedom to", a prevention will be provided. You can always decide to take alternatives, if you can afford it. A significant portion of the population can't. They will be able to enjoy life.…

How free a country is can be determined by this question. Would you choose to be a randomly chosen citizen? You could be anyone in that country with all the rights, privileges - or lack thereof - that that random person has. I think I'd rather be a random Canadian with healthcare and education than a random American. It's an interesting thought experiment.

I like to take it one step further.

Which country would you choose if you had to be poor?

I’d probably choose Cuba.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#486

Post by kelnos »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #313
singpolyma3 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this and it doesn't fit in my brain. They never drink water? Ever?

I wouldn't find that unusual. I hardly ever drink water; if it's available, I drink milk. Why would you drink water?

If I replaced my water intake with milk it would probably make me sick.

Water has zero calories, is reasonably filling, neutral-tasting, and gives me what my body needs, without any other junk. What's not to like?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#487

Post by kelnos »

floriannn wrote: post #112
Speedy218 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but now it is “overmedicating” a vulnerable fraction of the population. Makes sense, but the intention also is that many people do not brush their teeth, or at least do not brush them as often as they should, and so fluoride is added to drinking water to compensate so people's teeth don't start to fall out at an alarming rate.

> many people do not brush their teeth many? (!!!) Googling it all I found was one dentist website that said 2%, but didn't seem that reliable

If that figure is for the US, then that's ~7M people. Feels like "many" to me.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#488

Post by kleiba »

Xelynega wrote: post #484
kleiba wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Germany for a while. There, the water that comes out of your tab doesn't get fluorized. Instead, they add fluoride to tooth paste. So, is Germany less free or more free?

I think you missed the point of "positive" versus "negative" freedoms. They have more of one, less of the other.

Sorry if you read my post as snarky - I don't think I missed that point, I meant the question at the end more as food for thought.

The OP contrasts adding fluroide to water vs. not adding fluoride to water and brings up the freedom question. I find that very interesting. But he omits that there's also the variant I sketched, namely that fluoride could still be made available to the population, but not through water.

Now, how does this factoid relate to the freedom (positive or negative) question?

So, please don't read my post as negative, my intent was to bring an additional perspective to the table.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#489

Post by karparov »

aetimmes wrote: post #436
ekianjo wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. I rather define freedom by the government not deciding what's good for me

You're free to get your water straight from the ground, then.

Or just not consume any water.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#490

Post by sambeau »

verisimi wrote: post #355
hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

Perhaps, vitamins, micro doses of aspirin, and other low level medical treatments should also be added to water, for the benefit of the silent poor and sick.

Here in the U.K. at least, vitamins are added to many of the basic foods: like breakfast cereal and bread.

Putting aspirin in the water would be incredibly dangerous: brain bleeds and stomach ulcers would quickly knock out any other health benefits.

Post reply on HN