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'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#481

Post by fsflover »

wccrawford wrote: post #57
everdrive wrote: post #28

People are writing this off, but it eventually becomes impossible not to own a smartphone; an expensive device, with an expensive monthly plan, and an absolutely terrible privacy record. Eventually more businesses will require smartphone usage just to use their services. There could even be a time when government services require it.

A landline phone is about the cost of a cheap smartphone, and the landline itself costs about as much as the cheapest cell plans. But you actually don't need either of those. You just need the cheapest Android cellphone or tablet you get, and access to someone's wifi, which is freely available at many coffee shops, or from neighbors. I still agree you shouldn't need it, especially if you already have a computer. But…

> You just need the cheapest Android cellphone or tablet

So no security updates and any app can stop working any moment. And all your data are at Google, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#482

Post by rad_gruchalski »

SoftTalker wrote: post #302
svelle wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parking app I use in Berlin, easy park, works in the sense that I pre-select a timeframe I think im going to park which then gives me an estimate for how much it'll cost and reserve that amount using my CC. When I end the parking before that timer ends, the actual time I've parked will be taken and only that amount is charged. It used to be even better in the sense that you'd only start and then end parking witho…

Of course the apps could easily detect that parking has ended. They could note your location when you park. When the phone returns to that location, and then moves at driving speed, parking has ended. But they don't because they make more money by profiting from people who forget to "clock out" when they are done parking.

Yes, that’s what we need, parking apps tracking user’s location 24/7.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#483

Post by rad_gruchalski »

scarface_74 wrote: post #434
TeMPOraL wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless the app is exceptionally horrible you can just export it to Apple/Android wallet which is much more convenient than having to find a printer. Why do iOS and Android phones have a "wallet", and why a boarding pass would have anything to do with it? There's an electronic solution strictly better than the app, for when you have no printer handy: just give the user the goddamned PDF ! Works everywhere, works off…

Can a PDF automatically update with gate changes and delays?

You’re already at the airport. Just look around, stop staring at the phone.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#484

Post by crusty »

LinuxBender wrote: post #124

I think this article is city-centric. I am in a rural area in the US and I have only had a smart phone for 2 years and have never installed any apps beyond Mumla that I use for my own self hosted uMurmur server. I have never browsed the web from the phone. My life today is just as it was in the 1970's in that regard. All the businesses here have printed coupons. There are local printed newspapers. I have zero depende…

I don't think it's a natural urban/rural division. I suspect that that division is more an artifice of capitalism. These new services want to grow, so they target places with the most potential customers. If the pitch to the municipality is that they can take the cost of coin collection and meter maintenance out of the budget entirely, and switch the enforcement from a human walking around, checking meters and wiring tickets to a car that drives past with license plate readers and a sass subscription, then it will come for anywhere with meters, and may eventually come for everywhere, because the original pitch for meters required justifying the expense with projected revenue. And now, if the expense of a few signs and a subscription are low enough, and the license readers are already on police cars, then that evaluation changes.

Of course, as with all of it, local jobs disappear from the local budget, and that money gets shipped off to Wall Street.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#485

Post by eesmith »

invalidname wrote: post #404
eesmith wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would complain if the bank requires everyone to sign with a pen as there are disability reasons for why someone is unable to sign with a pen. Eg, https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/250d63/was_u... has "We used prints as my partner was dying and lost motor control." Or, think of Stephen Hawking, able to communicate but unable to operate a pen in the later part of his life. Wouldn't you complain if he ha…

Accessibility is a great point. In that regard apps often exceed pens in their accessibility support and laws such as the ADA require organizations like banks to comply with accessibility regulation. Just as a disabled person would have a caretaker sign as a proxy for them, such a caretaker could use the app for them in such a case. Better yet. A person who is bedridden or incapacitated could use an app from the conv…

> Just as a disabled person would have a caretaker sign as a proxy for them

You should likely be more careful about how your use of "disabled person" as I'm sure you know most disabled people do not have caretakers.

Also, the link I gave says 'agent or representative' - a caretaker is not necessarily either of those.

My point is that, yes, I would complain if the bank requires everyone to sign with a pen - and so would you, it seems.

So why is it okay to complain about forcing everyone to use a pen, but not okay to complain about forcing everyone to use an app, especially when we know there are people who will not use a smartphone including, for example, religious reasons. There is a market for "kosher phones" which don't let you install apps, or even have no internet support at all.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#486

Post by petertodd »

kstenerud wrote: post #384
2shortplanks wrote: post #167

One thing this article doesn’t mention is how this all falls apart when you spend time in more than one country. My UK bank (Barclays) won’t let me install their app on my US iPhone (i.e. my phone that uses a US based iCloud account). Tesco won’t let me use their loyalty app. I can’t install an app that’ll let me order Starbucks or McDonalds in the UK (I only have access to the US versions of these apps). I can’t wat…

I can't buy overnight bunk tickets on Ukrainian trains anymore because I need to authenticate, and the only authentication methods require either Ukrainian citizenship or residency cards. I can't install the app for my new Amex card because my Google account was opened in Canada and I live in Germany now. And it keeps getting worse every year. I'm worried that eventually my American and Canadian banking apps will sto…

> I can't buy overnight bunk tickets on Ukrainian trains anymore because I need to authenticate, and the only authentication methods require either Ukrainian citizenship or residency cards.

In fairness, that specific case is probably intentional. They have quite limited train capacity as all passenger air travel was forced to switch to trains/busses, and I suspect they're trying to save it for locals. It is annoying though; I've been to Ukraine quite a few times recently and have used that app myself.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#487

Post by whall6 »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #401
2shortplanks wrote: post #167

One thing this article doesn’t mention is how this all falls apart when you spend time in more than one country. My UK bank (Barclays) won’t let me install their app on my US iPhone (i.e. my phone that uses a US based iCloud account). Tesco won’t let me use their loyalty app. I can’t install an app that’ll let me order Starbucks or McDonalds in the UK (I only have access to the US versions of these apps). I can’t wat…

I recently travelled to Europe and found that a number of transportation apps disallowed me installing them. Toll road apps, public transit, etc… It was a major pain, and to make it worse I got fined €130 by Ausfinag for not paying tolls, but I couldn’t install their app and I bought the wrong sticker at the gas station because as it turns out there are a bunch of special areas with additional tolls above the base to…

Ha seems like the app is the scapegoat for this one

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#488

Post by scarface_74 »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #483
scarface_74 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can a PDF automatically update with gate changes and delays?

You’re already at the airport. Just look around, stop staring at the phone.

Until two years ago, I flew out of ATL - the busiest airport in the US. Am I suppose to look on the board and look for my flight out of the hundreds of flights to see if anything has changed and keep looking every 30 minutes?

If I’m sitting at a restaurant or a bar I should get up every 20 minutes to see if something has changed?

Should I also print out MapQuest directions before I go somewhere and wait for the paper boy to deliver the newspaper to get the news?

And it’s literally a mile from one end of the airport to the other. Is it somehow better to look on a board than just look on a phone?

And then you also get notifications when the flight changes so drastically that I need to completely change my flight plans. Just this past weekend we were suppose to fly MCO - MSP - LAS and flight changes meant we were going to misd our layover.

Luckily we were notified as soon as the change happen and we were able to make a change to MCO - ATL - LAS and get two of the last seats.

The same happen on the way back. It was LAS - MSP - MCO and we were able to change it to LAS - LAX - MCO.

Things always change when you fly a lot. The sooner you know about those changes the better.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#489

Post by mihaaly »

2shortplanks wrote: post #167

One thing this article doesn’t mention is how this all falls apart when you spend time in more than one country. My UK bank (Barclays) won’t let me install their app on my US iPhone (i.e. my phone that uses a US based iCloud account). Tesco won’t let me use their loyalty app. I can’t install an app that’ll let me order Starbucks or McDonalds in the UK (I only have access to the US versions of these apps). I can’t wat…

When I was young in Europe the trend was that the place where you live will dictate and limit less and less of your life. Technology, traveling, motivation of people will allow roaming, postcode independent existence.

Well, the trend froze up very fast and is in full reverse nowadays, I am in my early 50s and I believe me and my children's life will such more and more, be even more difiicult by the reverse of intents towards a more unified humanity. The law and all working with law will remain a big fucking barrier even if the representatives the people choose to form their life (politicians) would magicly become nice and selfless and efficient, they fight hard to do business the same shitty way as 100s of years ago, all differenty in all puny geographic regions, in as much diverse as possible, as incompetible with each other as possible. And several happily collaborate as it is a fix income to do unoptimal and fragmented way, happily waste our resources providing services in this muddy water.

Re: 'The tyranny of apps': those without smartphones are unfairly penalised

#490

Post by cbozeman »

Neonlicht wrote: post #323
lsecondario wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Society is about conforming. This is an expression of personal preference. It is a common preference but not universal.

Society is what people invented so that different people can live together. If you do not conform you're banished to jail.

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