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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#481

Post by jonasdegendt »

lqet wrote: post #418
matwood wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fly a lot and the only time I've ever thought 'this is it' was one time taking off out of Denver International. The airport is out on the plains east of the city and is known for high winds. We were taking off and nose had just started to lift up when a wind gust cause the entire plane to roll to the left. I could see the wing out my window and am still surprised to this day it didn't touch the ground. The pilot co…

We were once landing on Madeira, one of the most dangerous airports in the world. Even a nice landing there is quite uncomfortable. For some time you fly very close to the ocean, heading straight into the cliffs, and only in the last moment the plane seems to make a right turn to approach the runway. We made a wobbly touchdown, people already wanted to get up, when suddenly the plane was again lifted a few meters and…

Your description of the landing reminds me of the old Hong Kong Kai Tak airport approach.

You basically had to fly straight over the city, high rise buildings straight ahead, and bank right as hard as the plane would let you at just the right time to hit the runway.

Outside perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKqO6gdJIz8

Cockpit view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx3Ccs5tKfw

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#482

Post by shmeeed »

mrandish wrote: post #24

It's going to be interesting to hear how the plane ended up flipped upside down. There's ice on the ground so maybe a skid on braking resulting in hitting something near the runway causing the flip.

The lift generated by the remaining wing flipped it.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#483

Post by pseingatl »

Compare this crash to the Emirates crash in Dubai (EK 521, 2016). In the Emirates incident, the passengers stalled the evacuation in order to grab their carry-ons. Many were seen on the tarmac dragging roll-aboards. Here the passengers chose life over property and efficiently evacuated the aircraft.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#484

Post by cjrp »

nirui wrote: post #480
leetrout wrote: post #449

Clear view from the plane waiting to take off https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/1isabt... Which also brings into mind cockpit distractions but its amazing they caught this on video.

Holy shit, that was just pure luck that no one end up dead. Based on the video, the plane glide-flipped just enough to slide/roll itself out of the major fire. Things could be a whole lot worse if it played out just slightly differently.

I was thinking this, and also if the airframe had warped enough to prevent the doors opening (maybe this is impossible?).

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#485

Post by ceejayoz »

pseingatl wrote: post #483

Compare this crash to the Emirates crash in Dubai (EK 521, 2016). In the Emirates incident, the passengers stalled the evacuation in order to grab their carry-ons. Many were seen on the tarmac dragging roll-aboards. Here the passengers chose life over property and efficiently evacuated the aircraft.

It was a 777 (much more room) and not upside down, though.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#487

Post by exabrial »

leetrout wrote: post #449

Clear view from the plane waiting to take off https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/1isabt... Which also brings into mind cockpit distractions but its amazing they caught this on video.

My brother in law, aviation firefighter, said after a crash you have 15s to egress, that's it. There's not a lot of air in the metal tube you're trapped in, it'll fill with smoke and everyone will be disoriented. It's also a long way to the exits, and the average person in the exit row probably will be in shock and likely not operate the exit door immediately.

Absolutely incredible the fireball was put out in the flip, these people are so lucky.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#488

Post by sudosysgen »

crazygringo wrote: post #30
0xjunhao wrote: post #29

Maybe we should build more railways. The ground is more stable than the air.

Just because the ground is more stable than the air doesn't mean there aren't train collisions. Air travel actually has a lower fatality rate per mile than trains do. Rail crossings can be dangerous places.

What percentage of train fatalities are non-passenger suicides? The statistical comparison isn't very fair.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#489

Post by exabrial »

cjrp wrote: post #484
nirui wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit, that was just pure luck that no one end up dead. Based on the video, the plane glide-flipped just enough to slide/roll itself out of the major fire. Things could be a whole lot worse if it played out just slightly differently.

I was thinking this, and also if the airframe had warped enough to prevent the doors opening (maybe this is impossible?).

I'm hoping that's a design consideration!

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#490

Post by cjrp »

sitharus wrote: post #424
fransje26 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, I found a deck of studying cards from Endeavor-Air, for the CRJ 900 limiations [1]. Card 18 states: Max allowable crosswind component for takeoff and landing on a runway when the braking action is “FAIR” => 20 knots That also seems to overlap with what is being discussed by CRJ pilots in this reddit thread [2] (EDIT: also discussed today here [3]) If the METAR is correct, they were landing with a cross…

The METAR was 27028G35KT, or 28 gusting 35 from 270° magnetic However the runway landing was 33, or 330° magnetic. So this is 24-30kt crosswind component. The maximum landing crosswind on a dry runway is 32kt. The press conference reported the runway as dry, so if they’re correct then it’s within limits. At the reported -9°c if the runway has been de-iced it could be dry I guess? The surveillance potato camera makes…

The rule of thumb I was taught for crosswind component based on difference between runway heading and wind direction was 60º = 6/6 of the crosswind, 30º = 1/2, 10º = 1/6. So if they're landing on runway 23, 270/28 would amount to (roughly) 4/6 of the wind as a crosswind component, or 19kt.
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