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More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

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Re: More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

#481
post #323
post #252

when you re generationally deprived of real estate heroin, you end up with stock market cocaine it s all partly gambling but different strokes for different generations

Good insured real estate is always a good safe bet. The best conservative investment that current & few past gens could have done while being completely clueless about stocks, markets, politics etc. People need to live someplace to be just part of society and also to just survive, plus there is emotional and status aspect. Western construction is lagging behind population growth in popular places plus running / ran o…

I've done the math for a bunch of properties family and friends have owned, and they were never beating index funds.

Do the math and you'll find that putting your money in an index fund almost always beats real estate, with much less risk and much less work.

It's easy for one property to underperform the market by a lot. It's hard for an index fund to do the same.

I own a $1.5M rental home in a luxury destination and profoundly regret it. The amount of work I put into it was enormous. I'm not outperforming the market, and I can't sell it because the mortgage rate is 2%.

Re: More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

#482
post #343

I lost my life savings chasing the dopamine hit and can relate to this. I'm in my mid 30s and suffering from career burnout. I know I can't afford a home when I can barely work full-time so I figured I'd trade. I was up, and up and up! Then I was down, then up, then down. One morning I woke up and I was so down, I sold out of fear. Now I'm left with so little I might as well be starting from scratch. This feels like…

My experience, with a wide variety of generally older friends & associates & such - If they're talking about an occasional visit to the casino, people will be up front about the fact that they walked into the place with $X in their pocket, and walked out with $Y. Almost always, $X > $Y. If they're talking about stocks they've bought, people will be incredibly selective, and describe only some of their greatest succes…

Which is ridiculous because while casinos are engineered to ensure $x > $y over time, economies are existentially dependent on the reverse being true over time and across a broad enough portfolio.

Folks you can just buy the S&P 500 and wait. It really is that simple. Money will go down sometimes, up sometimes, down some more, but in the long run it will almost certainly go up. And if it doesn't, the world is crumbling anyway so who cares?

Re: More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The N=1 or handful of people that are your exception kind of prove the rule. Here's the thing...if you want to be pedantic, you need to explain how someone persists such alpha over time with examples. Not easy. edit: See my note below on RenTech.

I would think that the ways that people generate consistent alpha would include scale advantages, information asymmetry, execution advantages, geographical advantages and a strategic edge. Usually some combination of those factors. Someone like Warren Buffet has a once in a generation skill combined with massive scale and information advantage (he sees deals in publicly-traded stocks before anyone else). You may clai…

I fully agree Buffett is a one of a kind investor who's outperformed. I would love to have owned BRK shares, and still think you can't really go wrong owning them. That said, his performance v. S&P 500, a simple index, hasn't persisted. Basically, Buffett lost his advantages and even started making public bets that index funds would outperform actively managed funds.

> I did the math and starting from 1965 to 2002, a period of 38 years, the compounded annual return of the S&P 500 was 10.02% while that of Berkshire was 25.66%. But—and here's the kicker—from 2003 to 2022, a period of 20 years, the S&P 500 delivered a 9.80% compounded annual return while Berkshire came in lower at 9.75%. [0]

He's gotten fined for insider dealing by the SEC. And I figure that a lot of his "alpha" came in the earlier days of the markets when there was less regulation.

FWIW, here's an interesting article on Buffett's alpha. [1]

> Previous researchers analyzing Buffett’s returns using conventional size, value, and momentum factors haven’t been able to adequately explain his outperformance, the authors say, leaving admirers to conclude that Buffett’s magic is pure alpha. So they extend the analysis by testing Buffett’s impressive returns — as measured by Berkshire’s stock — against two factors that better reflect his folksy investing wisdom: One called “Betting Against Beta,” which represents safe, low-beta stocks, and another called “Quality Minus Junk,” which represents the stocks of high-quality companies that are profitable, growing, and paying dividends.

The results? “Controlling for these factors,” the authors write, “drives the alpha of Berkshire’s public stock portfolio down to a statistically insignificant annualized 0.1%, meaning that these factors almost completely explain the performance of Buffett’s public portfolio.” The factors also explain “a large part” of Berkshire’s overall stock return, the authors add, as well as Berkshire’s private portfolio, insofar as their alphas also become statistically insignificant.

[0] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/warren-buffett-has-underperfo...

[1] https://blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor/2012/09/11/chasing-w...

Re: More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like with everything else, using your brain cells can quickly make you realize it's a lot more than "gambling" Which sounds similar to how gambling addicts report their thoughts on their addiction - that they are smart enough to learn poker, or they know enough basketball to be able to predict outcomes. Like with everything else, some research and data interpretation shows that with the remarkable exception of two…

This comment should not be greyed out. See the Buffett Bet [1] for the most famous example of this. Warren Buffet bet a million against Ted Seides (head of Protege at the time) that a simple index fund investment would outperform any handpicked selection of hedge funds over a decade. And critically this bet was made in 2008 just before the market crashed! That's when hedge funds should disproportionately shine, as pe…

I think it would be much better if the comments here focused on the benefits of passive, long term investments in index funds. As it is, I worry people will “correct” by leaving money in a savings account instead.

Re: More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

#485
post #442

Coincidentially today I've just finished reading: "The Little Book on Common Sense Investing" by John Bogle. What's described in the article is exactly the opposite of what people should be doing if interested in serious investing. The book mostly focus on index funds and I highly recommend its reading to anyone who wants to understand and embark on investing seriously. The book is short, extremely easy to read, full…

I’ll add it to my reading list, but I think a lot has changed in the world since this book was written.

It’s a cheap way to purchase a diverse subset of the global economy. That’s as timeless as it gets.

Re: More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

#486

> They expect the problem to worsen. The stock market has climbed 23% this year... The problem will resolve itself if (when?) the market crashes. I remember the run up to the dot-com bust. I was too much of a bumpkin at the time to even know how I would trade stocks — but I listened to an acquaintance go on and on about how much he was making on the market. At the time I guessed that he was much smarter than me — tha…

[dead]

Re: More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

#487

After losing my first chunk of cash during 2000 .COM crash I became be quite contrarian. Thought real estate is way too high, thought the stock market is nuts, bitcoin is a scam. Turns out the big crash never happened and everything ket going up. Three years ago for some reason I jumped into the stock market, bought a house, bought some bitcoin. Turns out so far the gains have been life changing. If I ever get laid o…

If you haven't already, now might be a good time to sell some of that bitcoin

Yeah HN has been giving this advice since BTC was at 60k.

And 30k.

And 10k.

Re: More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience, with a wide variety of generally older friends & associates & such - If they're talking about an occasional visit to the casino, people will be up front about the fact that they walked into the place with $X in their pocket, and walked out with $Y. Almost always, $X > $Y. If they're talking about stocks they've bought, people will be incredibly selective, and describe only some of their greatest succes…

Which is ridiculous because while casinos are engineered to ensure $x > $y over time, economies are existentially dependent on the reverse being true over time and across a broad enough portfolio. Folks you can just buy the S&P 500 and wait. It really is that simple. Money will go down sometimes, up sometimes, down some more, but in the long run it will almost certainly go up. And if it doesn't, the world is crumblin…

Yep this is the craziest part. The answer has been known for a long time. S&P500. Literally that simple

Re: More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

#489
post #442

Coincidentially today I've just finished reading: "The Little Book on Common Sense Investing" by John Bogle. What's described in the article is exactly the opposite of what people should be doing if interested in serious investing. The book mostly focus on index funds and I highly recommend its reading to anyone who wants to understand and embark on investing seriously. The book is short, extremely easy to read, full…

I’ll add it to my reading list, but I think a lot has changed in the world since this book was written.

Online stock trading has gone from cheap to free, but that doesn't affect the worthiness of the book.

Re: More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the stock market

#490
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't it still $10/trade back then? That adds user friction, which discourages the gambling aspect much more than "free" trades provided by Robinhood (free as in they'll sell your order flow data to third parties).

I pay my brokerage about that, which is fine, as it works out as less than 0.1% of my average deal - and it’s usually at least five years between a buy and a sell. When people complain about brokerage fees, or are pleased that their brokerage charge no fees, it usually means they will be losing their shirt at some point. Volatility trading is for masochists on actual cocaine, and suckers.

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