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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

cnn.com

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Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#481

Post by rightbyte »

fuoqi wrote: post #269
armchairhacker wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case the US would be allowed to send aid to some other government to strike Russia (they're currently doing this with Ukraine but for a separate reason, for Ukraine's self-defense...) Or in an ideal world, the US pays Syria more to not attack them, maybe even gets them to sign a treaty and commits to building Syria's economy and protecting them so they don't feel compelled to take Russian bribes. Although, it…

So you do understand that the world can not work according to your simple tit-for-tat principle of "counterattack with equal force". It's a multi-dimensional game where each player has its own fairly opaque "reward function". "Equal force" from one point of view can become "disproportionate escalation" from another. This is where a proper understanding of your opponent becomes important. Even worse, inside US and Rus…

[flagged]

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#482

Post by jpc0 »

smcl wrote: post #476
card_zero wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* The Chinese / Russian owned what left Kaliningrad? * Which pipeline? * Last year (2023), not 2022?

There are very few things which can be described as “setting sail” and can “drop anchor” so I think you can fill the gap easily

Of the big metal things that can "set sail" and "drop anchor" there happens to be a very large set of classifications...

But using your heuristics, that catamarang crew should probably have been interviewed.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#483

Post by TiredOfLife »

aredox wrote: post #30
philip1209 wrote: post #23

It seems that the obvious solution could be Starlink-style meshes. Can anybody comment on how fragile the Starlink protocol would be during a war? If its line-of-sight, presumably it would be hard to jam?

Send some sharpnel on the same orbital altitude as Starlink and the whole constellation disappears.

It's Starlink. It would take an sms from Putin at most for Musk to turn it off.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#484

Post by sekai »

trhway wrote: post #427
chgs wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still waiting for Russian forces to occupy Kyiv

I suggest you revisit the history of the first days of the invasion, specifically the depth which the ground armored forces reached in the first 2-3 days and what and how they were stopped. The Baltic states "width" is much smaller, and thus there is much less time to organize defense, etc. It is hardly enough time even just for taking the decision to initiate defense. Of course, like in the case with Ukraine, Russia…

> thus there is much less time to organize defense, etc.

Russia was concentrating troops alongside the border for months. It started on October 2021, invasion began on February 2022.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#485

Post by kookamamie »

card_zero wrote: post #467
Maxion wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The case last year with the gas pipeline, the Chinese / Russian owned left Kaliningrad, and then while sailing, dropped its anchor before the pipeline and cable, and then dragged it over them, and then raised it. It was apparently accidental, yet both the Chinese and Russians didn't want the crew interviewed, the Estonian and the Finnish authorities both shrugged and didn't really care, and the Estonian energy prices…

* The Chinese / Russian owned what left Kaliningrad? * Which pipeline? * Last year (2023), not 2022?

A ship. The ship is named Newnew Polar Bear.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#486

Post by valval »

aguaviva wrote: post #345
valval wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously telling me that the opposing side would care about what an alliance calls themselves? Hitler could call the axis powers a defensive allience and it wouldn’t make it so. Cmon, this is basic reasoning that most 10 year olds would grasp. NATO has engaged in a dozen wars and conflicts as aggressors.

NATO has engaged in a dozen wars and conflicts as aggressors. A careful examination of the list below suggests that, in terms of your choice of the words "dozen" and "aggressor", the way they are usually meant in English -- you're definitely stretching things, here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations

I know what I said, and I was careful with my words.

We have this thing going on in the west where we are the good guys, and every war we start is an anti-terrorist operation. For Russia, the term just now was “special military operation”.

It’s hilarious when you realise how the world works. Controlling words means controlling minds. We’ve grown quite good at it.

We went to Korea and took any of our allies who wanted to fight with us. We were already NATO then. Then we went to Vietnam. Then we meddled with some civil wars here and there. Did some “interventions” and took our NATO allies with us each time. Then we started proper pummelling the Middle East.

To our adversaries, every single bullet that is shot by a NATO country is a NATO operation. It doesn’t take a full scale mobilisation, and it doesn’t matter what we call it internally. NATO is a military alliance, and our militaries are NATO’s militaries.

Of course each time it was communists or terrorists we were killing so it doesn’t matter, right? It’s like these things happen in a vacuum and aren’t a result of our intrusive foreign policy. We don’t ever speak of the events leading up to 9/11. Crazy terrorists doing their thing, savages that they are? For some reason the Ukrainian neo-nazis killing people in Donbas aren’t that, though. Wrong side of history, I guess.

And to be fair, I’m no pacifist. What I detest is trying to change the cold realities of life and making them seem like something they are not.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#487

Post by blub »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #295

This would be an excellent time for Germany to announce that it is tripling munitions production, and that they’re going to do whatever they have to do to protect the territorial integrity of Europe. But they won’t.

Meanwhile, in the real world Germany is de-industrializing because of the high energy prices and competition from China and US.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#488

Post by chii »

throwaway290 wrote: post #402
petre wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany was told to stop buying Russian gas financing the Russian war machine by the previous Trump administration. They were told to pledge 2% of their GDP for defense, contributing more to NATO. They didn't listen. This is what happened: Ukraine got invaded, the pipeline was blown up to ensure compliance, their defense spending reachd 2% this year, more two years too late in a worse economic climate. Next year, the…

Don't forget how Germany's exports of chips and machinery to places like Kyrgyzstan skyrocketed since the invasion. > Exports of motor vehicles and motor vehicle parts to Kyrgyzstan grew particularly strongly in the first quarter, soaring more than 4,000% from a very small base to over 84 million euros... That came after a six-fold rise in German exports to Kyrgyzstan last year following Russia's February 2022 invasi…

With the gov't coalition collapse in germany, there's definitely some voices that oppose western actino against russia (adf is one, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG4bxFKBNos).

I can't help but suspect that russian influence and covert action behind the scenes, most of which might be decades in the making, is kicking into high gear.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#489

Post by trhway »

hackandthink wrote: post #479
trhway wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. That is why Russia hasn't yet moved, and still looking for a way to do it. Russia is deliberately stuck in the past where for example the "War scare of 1927" laid ground and provided the excuse for the militarization of and repressions in USSR and ultimately to the USSR starting WWII together with and as ally of Hitler. And the first thing USSR did back then in 1939 was the "solution" of the perceived issues of…

The Soviet Union was right to be scared back then. The next invasion from the west happened 1941. And I guess there is still some paranoia in Russia. The NATO Neocons are busy feeding it.

>The Soviet Union was right to be scared back then. The next invasion from the west happened 1941.

Not really. The USSR was scared about what they perceived as Anglo-led forces and so united with Germany against them and attacked them first. The invasion of 1941 came from Germany who was still an ally even just the night before the invasion - Hitler even fed Stalin (and Stalin went for it!) the fake that the German forces got accumulated on the USSR border to mislead Britain into thinking that Germany plans to attack USSR while instead Germany was supposedly preparing to invade Britain.

>And I guess there is still some paranoia in Russia. The NATO Neocons are busy feeding it.

The Russian paranoia hasn't changed much since Ivan The Terrible, long before neocons.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#490

Post by picohik »

donalhunt wrote: post #472
jillesvangurp wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most/all of the traffic would be encrypted.

That wasn't the case in the past. Events over the past 15 years have resulted in most companies encrypting all traffic between datacenters (due to the perceived risk). TLS between consumers and companies is probably at an all time high though due to a push for end-to-end encryption.

These things get encrypted at a lower layer, macsec. At the transport layer it's all transparent. No need for TLS between your servers, that's just wasted overhead.

You typically encrypt anyway because you just lease the line and buy the b/w. It's operated by a different company and you share the wire with other customers.

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