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Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

mcc-berlin.net

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Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#481

Post by ben_w »

hilux wrote: post #407
ben_w wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is only about half the land area of the USA; Germany is roughly equivalent of the fourth largest US state, Montana, and only CA, TX, and AK are bigger. Do any states have something equivalent to this?

And Germany has a population of 83 million. Montana has a population of 1.1 million. I don't get your point.

You said the USA was big. Now you're saying population is the important thing. Combined that's population density, so does Maryland have this? Connecticut? etc.

On the density front, NYC is famously high density, and yet so far as I can tell a monthly pass for just there is double the raised price this ticket will be next year: https://new.mta.info/document/118601

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#482

Post by ozim »

geysersam wrote: post #408
SoftTalker wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also pay fuel tax, registration tax, and other taxes that fund the roads

Do you think that covers the cost of building and maintaining the road network infrastructure? Do you think that it covers the cost of excess death caused by particle emissions and road fatalities? We don't have the option to completely replace car infrastructure, but we shouldn't act like it isn't heavily subsidized. That said, the positive externalities are also significant, but so are the positive externalities fr…

Everyone has access to a road. Not everyone has access to rail. No business can run without access to road, most businesses can run without access to rail.

There is basically no way to compare rail vs roads and making some arguments based on that.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#483

Post by ben_w »

Aeolun wrote: post #345
ben_w wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a UK citizen living in Berlin, I assure you that for all the cancellations and repair works, there's many places which look up to the German system. (I've also been to the USA, and (IMO) Amtrak makes the UK look good).

The UK is so expensive though. I thought I was looking at airplane fares.

Fair. I've had one flight to the UK that cost less than the train ticket from the UK airport to my actual destination. Air tickets got a lot more expensive after the pandemic, but it's still close.

(OTOH, I've also had one case where it was cheaper to take the ferry and trains back from the UK to Berlin than fly, presumably because of massive demand as that was the day Stansted airport was closed by 1cm of snow and I had an 8 hour queue for a replacement flight that was itself also cancelled).

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#484

Post by ygra »

aeyes wrote: post #315
consp wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every pupil has free access to all of the country's local&regional public transport system... I find that kind of mind-blowing. We've had this since the 1990s for higher education students. One of the known effects is that students who got it, used the public transport systems more often after wards as they were more familiar with it. I would not be surprised if Germany has a simmilar effect. The problem with these…

When I started studying at university it was an optional additonal fee paid with the Semesterbeitrag and the ticket was only valid in the city (not even the state) and its close surroundings. A bit later they didn't allow us to opt out anymore but lowered the price a bit. So for students in my region this was never free and still isn't, you are forced to pay for it and can't opt out: https://www.studentenwerk-leipzig…

It varies a lot by university. In Osnabrück the Semesterticket basically allowed to travel as far as Hanover, Münster and Bremen, which was pretty far as that goes. In Rostock on the other hand it only covered the city and a few of the surrounding villages (back in 2011, though).

I think there was a provision of opting out if you needed a regular public transport ticket anyway to get to the uni (because you lived too far outside) but that varies by uni as well.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#485

Post by maigret »

itronitron wrote: post #416
danaris wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has never been significantly true, and becomes less true every year. The probability that any given child will be kidnapped or otherwise threatened by a stranger is minuscule compared to the chance that they will be abused, kidnapped, or killed by a family member.

It's a low probability, high impact event in a country with limited public access to affordable health care and very limited access to therapists.

By that thinking, looking at the data, you should prevent kids from seeing their family… Understand the nonsense? But nonsense gets often commonsensical when everyone in your circle believes it. Going outside has more benefits than risks. Like biking, yes you are at risk of accident, but in the average you’ll be fitter and live longer.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#486

Post by geysersam »

ozim wrote: post #482
geysersam wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that covers the cost of building and maintaining the road network infrastructure? Do you think that it covers the cost of excess death caused by particle emissions and road fatalities? We don't have the option to completely replace car infrastructure, but we shouldn't act like it isn't heavily subsidized. That said, the positive externalities are also significant, but so are the positive externalities fr…

Everyone has access to a road. Not everyone has access to rail. No business can run without access to road, most businesses can run without access to rail. There is basically no way to compare rail vs roads and making some arguments based on that.

Everyone who don't own a car have significantly less access to roads than someone who do.

Of course it's possible to compare the advantages and drawbacks of different modes of transport. No society can function without roads, but it's still a question of priorities.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#487

Post by ben_w »

bowsamic wrote: post #439
ben_w wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a UK citizen living in Berlin, I assure you that for all the cancellations and repair works, there's many places which look up to the German system. (I've also been to the USA, and (IMO) Amtrak makes the UK look good).

I visited the UK, which is my home, and the UK train system was amazing. Got multiple tight connections with zero delays. Far better than I’ve experienced living in Germany

Even when I lived in the UK, I never had that experience.

End of term, Aberystwyth to Birmingham trains were regularly terminated on route at Wolverhampton.

Loose connections generally worked.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#488

Post by pjmlp »

epolanski wrote: post #220
pjmlp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big difference between doing 1h with car, and 3h with public transport.

You mean the other way around.

Not at all, it is that bad in many areas, not everyone lives in Berlin.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#489

Post by pjmlp »

lispm wrote: post #61
pjmlp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big difference between doing 1h with car, and 3h with public transport.

maybe 3 hours in the car and 1h with public transport. if you are in the rushhour and a traffic jam (not an unusual problem), then the train will be faster. Plus one can work in the train or relax. My regional train here 20km going into the city center is impossible to beat by car. 77.77% of the people live in cities. 55% live in cities with >20k people. Generally Germany is a decentralized country with a lot of regi…

Nope, it suffices to live 80 km away from workplace, and not being lucky to live in places with direct connections, where at least three changes are required, with local connection bus, two train changes, plus additional bus/metro/tram on destination.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#490

Post by maigret »

komali2 wrote: post #377
nsokolsky wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True to a degree but cars also make parenting easier: you get bigger houses, bigger backyards, don't have lug your kids around on public transit, deal with the weather, don't need to worry about rail worker strikes, etc. All America's missing is laws that allow kids to walk to school and adding more sidewalks to enable this, but this is changing over time (see Utah's free range parenting law).

As someone who grew up in suburban sprawl, maybe it makes parenting easier, maybe. But they also had to drive me to and from school every day, and band practice, and every single game, and whenever I wanted to hang out with my friends. I would argue my parents basically were moonlighting as my Uber driver for about 16 years until I got my own car. Big yards are great, but empty. Mom, can you drive me to my friend's b…

Funny, I was basically mobile with bike from age 10 or so. Had some friends I needed the parents for until I got a small motorcycle aged 14.

So living outside a city is not an issue, although I often wished we’d be nearer to a city.

But society has changed a lot since and everyone is scared of the beautiful outside world.

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