Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–490 of 514 posts

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#481

Post by calderarrow »

handoflixue wrote: post #475
mystified5016 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to frame it: Assume the justice system is perfect and only guilty people are executed. However, by law for every five or ten guilty executions, a random innocent civilian is also executed. That system is obviously abhorrent and unjust. However, that's how the system works right now . For every N truly guilty people executed, there's a truly innocent person executed. The only difference is we justify it by…

This is true of any punishment, though: if we want to hold people in prison, we're going to have innocent people in there too. Why draw the line specifically at "death"?

With capital punishment, we remove the possibility of fixing our mistake if someone is innocent. But if we lock someone up for 30 years, they have the opportunity for justice to be served, and we have mechanics to _try_ to make it right.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#482

Post by EMIRELADERO »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #474
widowlark wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Better a thousand innocent men are locked up than one guilty man roam free." To clarify, I vehemently disagree with your post and think that the pursuit of innocence is an imperative function of the state.

Funny enough, i think i agree with you. the pursuit of innocence is an imperative function of the state. And that's why we have innocent until proven guilty. But I think we disagree on our trust of the legal system. Once proven guilty under the court of law that must be upheld. If you locked the doors and burned your grandma alive because you thought she was satan you should be executed, not put in a cushy hospital t…

I disagree, on the basis that retribution should simply not be a state penalogical goal at all. When you say someone "should be executed" you're conjuring up innate feelings of the desire for vindictiveness. A modern state should not have that in consideration at all.

Either they're so dangerous that no matter what you do or say to them they will never change their ways, or they can be rehabilitated. Neither of those posibilities justifies the kind of cruel treatments that plague America's prisons today, much less the death penalty.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#483

Post by kbos87 »

reginald78 wrote: post #437
amiga386 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter how heinous the murder was if you have the wrong suspect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrsVhzbLzU > Priti Patel: this is about having deterrents... > Ian Hislop: It's not a deterrent killing the wrong people!

This is the second time in as many days I've seen some one use the argument that the severity of the crime meant the standards for conviction should somehow be less stringent. Sadly, I don't get the impression is an uncommon way of thinking.

This line of thinking peeks through all the time from otherwise intelligent people. Merely mentioning how heinous a crime was when we're talking about the guilt or innocence of a suspect should immediately kill your credibility. Too bad the criminal justice system doesn't care about that.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#484

Post by anonCoffee »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

Executions speed up evolving bad traits out of humanity. Short term bleeding hearts hurt us long term.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#485

Post by smsm42 »

harshreality wrote: post #311
wpm wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circumstantial. There are a 1000 different ways he could have obtained those items without committing a murder. Prove that having them is proof positive he killed someone.

I don't think there are 1000 different ways to get both a ruler and a laptop that belonged to the same murder victim.

Did they ask Williams how the laptop got there? If yes, what did he say? If not, why not?

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#486

Post by za3faran »

calderarrow wrote: post #453
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

I used to be, for most of the same reasons as you. What ultimately convinced me was realizing that our judicial system can never be 100% perfect, so we would always have a non-zero number of innocent people executed as long as capital punishment is on the table. To me, I think the cost of keeping people incarcerated is worth the cost of accidentally executing innocent citizens. Put a bit more personally: would you su…

There is an approach that works, see i.e. the Islamic Judicial system. Hudud (Penal laws) are immediately waived with an ounce of suspicion.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#487

Post by truetraveller »

amatecha wrote: post #351
knodi123 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the governor, > The girlfriend never requested the reward for information about Ms. Gayle’s murder, despite claims that she was only interested in money.

except.. > The woman at first denied having information about the crime, prosecutors’ motion states. But after meeting with police several times – and being promised charges she was facing would be dropped and told she would be eligible for the reward – Asaro eventually cooperated, telling police she had indeed seen Williams on the afternoon of the murder, the motion states. https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/21/us/marcellu…

Wow...that is amazing dishonesty on the part of the governor if this is true. Incredible how hard people are trying to hide facts.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#488

Post by anothername12 »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #472
mystified5016 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not just select random citizens by lottery and publicly execute one for every 50 or 100 convicts executed? You're willing to accept that if the random citizen is labeled as guilty even if they're not. If it's acceptable for innocent people to be executed, what's the difference in having a random death lottery?

That's the whole point of the system is it not? We accept that there is a vanishigly small chance that a innocent person may be locked up and imprisoned. The point i was making is that we are already making that choice by the allowance of jails and prisons. So if we accept that, the sentencing does not matter. They were proven guilty in the court of law. There is a handful of studies, i'm sure someone could pull up a…

I think put yourself in the shoes of someone about to be executed innocent of their crime. Then make your argument. It sounds like “some of you die, but it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make” otherwise.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#489

Post by potatodev »

anon291 wrote: post #426

Reading the governor's letter it seems clear: 1. The witness who claimed Williams confessed provided non-publicly-available, but known-to-police, details about the case. This is very strong evidence that the confession was made to them. 2. The girlfriend's hesitation to go to police (she never asked for the reward money) is due to the fact that Williams threatened her family, which is a real threat considering his hi…

Misinfo

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#490

Post by moi2388 »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

Probably not. I am just not in favour for putting them in hospitals. You won’t “fix” a Taoist or murderer.

Put them in prison for life, make them work for food and housing.

Post reply on HN