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Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

theguardian.com

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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#481

Post by dmix »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #470
codedokode wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I open Youtube via an EU proxy, I see "a crypto scam" video at the front page, the first one. The title is "+35 ETH generated last month by effectively using the contract bot for trading" and the account name is "Web3 developer", and the label says "Sponsored". The thumbnail displays a happy bearded man's face resembling that famous Youtuber who gives away money, a fire emoji and words "+35 ETH in July perso…

Forgive my scepticism, but I’m going to have to ask you for a screenshot and which country YouTube thought you were connecting from. I’m asking because, at least according to my understanding of YouTube’s ad policies, that shouldn’t be allowed: https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/14009787?hl=en&r...

He said video not ad

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#482

Post by codedokode »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #470
codedokode wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I open Youtube via an EU proxy, I see "a crypto scam" video at the front page, the first one. The title is "+35 ETH generated last month by effectively using the contract bot for trading" and the account name is "Web3 developer", and the label says "Sponsored". The thumbnail displays a happy bearded man's face resembling that famous Youtuber who gives away money, a fire emoji and words "+35 ETH in July perso…

Forgive my scepticism, but I’m going to have to ask you for a screenshot and which country YouTube thought you were connecting from. I’m asking because, at least according to my understanding of YouTube’s ad policies, that shouldn’t be allowed: https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/14009787?hl=en&r...

Link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvlbunSGDmU

Screenshot (title has changed from what I wrote earlier or this is another ad): https://imgur.com/a/TX0xB9y

Country is the one in Europe.

Maybe this is not a scam and therefore is allowed? Maybe it is a joke video? I didn't watch the video, but the title and thumbnails looks like a "scam".

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#483

Post by NoboruWataya »

garrettgarcia wrote: post #331
gtvwill wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But here's the thing. If your app is known to be uses heavily by criminals ranging from Pedo's to drug dealers. You are liable. You run a carrier service. Much like the owner of omegle found out, yes you do have a duty of care. You can't just provide a service that knowingly provides a platform to criminal activity and do jack shit. You live in fairytale land if you think you can.

Why stop there? By your logic, the owners of every ISP that provides a pathway for those criminal bits also should be in jail. Every single organization in that pathway would be liable from the registrars to the developers of web libraries or other app services. The governments themselves would be liable in many cases where the government has nationalized internet services. There is a principle in the free world that…

> Why stop there?

Because we want to, and we can. I don't get how HN consistently fails to understand the actual social and political process by which regulations are made. I constantly see this argument which effectively boils down to "if you ban a thing, you will also need to ban everything else, which is absurd, so you shouldn't ban anything". But in real life we can choose what we ban. Everything is a trade-off; we can choose to ban something if the harm it creates is considered to outweigh its benefit to society.

It is open to society to decide that Telegram is more proximate to the harm being caused, and less otherwise socially useful, than an ISP, and on that basis punish the former but not the latter. (It is also reasonable to argue that Telegram is not sufficiently proximate to the harm and that it is sufficiently socially useful that it should be allowed to operate, and honestly I sympathise with that argument more. But my point is that it is a matter of weighing social harm vs benefit and not just a technical analysis of "where the bits go".)

If you get caught driving a getaway car for an armed robber, you are going to jail. Arguing "ah, but by that logic you'll also have to jail the guy who sold the robber his breakfast" isn't going to cut it, and rightly so.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#485

Post by dmix »

a0123 wrote: post #297
chucke1992 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe there are any western nations that want non-locally-backdoored messaging of any sort But that's what exactly they want no? EU is literally implementing a regulation that will allow to "circumvent end-to-end encryption to address child sexual abuse material". I believe it failed to pass recently, but they will try again - and nothing stops countries to implement it independently. I think France is th…

To be clear, the legislation in France and in the EU that is most likely behind this arrest is that companies have to at least try to do some moderation. There is an understanding that not everything can be moderated (obviously, the entire Internet would be banned otherwise) but there has to be a genuine attempt. Which every company does more or less. The fact that Telegram doesn't reach this extremely low, very low…

It's so disingenuous to say it's just a small requirement. It always starts off small than grows and grows into ever widening topics and unfavourable people. We've seen that plenty of times on the internet and in history. The good intentions in the early days won't make any difference in 20yrs from now.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#486

Post by baby »

artembugara wrote: post #26

According to this source he’s accused in non-cooperating. He’s not accused of terrorism, drug, or slaving directly. Very interesting to see where it will all go. I don’t understand how they’re going to convince French judges that he’s guilty for not being able to decrypt chats that he has no keys for…

My immediate guess is that there’s more. The french secret service strikes me as much more “intelligent” than the US secret service (which I heard is mostly ran by mormons), so I would think this type of move is heavily calculated

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#487

Post by codedokode »

dmix wrote: post #481
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my scepticism, but I’m going to have to ask you for a screenshot and which country YouTube thought you were connecting from. I’m asking because, at least according to my understanding of YouTube’s ad policies, that shouldn’t be allowed: https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/14009787?hl=en&r...

He said video not ad

It has a "Sponsored" label and doesn't match my interests at all, but is still displayed at the first place.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#488

Post by cherryteastain »

op00to wrote: post #414
sgc wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just give me an apple messaging client on my non-apple devices. It is insanely, practically criminally, anti-social to lock your messaging system into your devices alone. It's like the Joker is running the business decisions over there. Who cares, let's just watch the world burn.

Asking cause I don’t know - can you provide iOS level iMessage encryption safely on Android when you don’t control the hardware?

Safety wise, Signal (or PGP email) on GrapheneOS is probably as good as it gets since it's all audited free open source code.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#489

Post by pajeets »

vwkd wrote: post #435

https://x.com/christogrozev/status/1827450631462048023 > I wonder what caught up with him first: the undisturbed sale of hard drugs vIa telegram, or the undisturbed recruitment of freelancers for GRU's terrorist attacks across Europe. Seems there could be some truth to the accusations.

Telegram and cryptocurrency has single handedly responsible for the recent drug epidemic, sex blackmail rings in South Korea.

Cant say I have good things to say about Telegram founders and operators. Its not some innocent "free speech" messenger app, its sinister

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#490

Post by pajeets »

aa_is_op wrote: post #471
stiltzkin wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you endorse if Venezuela or North Korea do the same?

Stupid argument since those countries use Telegram for money laundering

North Korean meth is sold in bulk on Telegram channels in South Korea. Drug abuse is out of control and crypto currency is used by NK to sell drugs to SK and use funds for its regime.
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