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No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#481

Post by belorn »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #448
jjk166 wrote: post #322

This whole article is talking about absentee fathers, but every example is listing why the mother left or kicked out the father. Nowhere in the article is mentioned the obvious common denominator - women are no longer utterly dependent on their husbands. People didn't stay together more often in the 50s because the couples were better, or because people were held to higher standards, it was because getting out of a t…

> the world has changed, mostly for the better This remains to be seen, honestly There are an awful lot of unhappy men out there and they are going to boil over eventually

It may be less boiling over, and more exiting. A major increase in suicides, increasingly fewer people willing to do jobs, and a ever aging demographic with increased pressure on social support and health care. Everyone looses with no clear path forward.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#482

Post by [deleted] »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #465
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Translation: “I was impregnated by 3 other guys, and they all left me, and now I finally found a boyfriend but it turns out he doesn’t want to spend his money to feed my kids.” This just in, when you date a single mother, you will probably end up being involved in her children's lives and supporting them. Didn't think we needed to spell that out but here we are.

You simply dating her and naturally being involved in her childrens' lives doesn't make you responsible for financially supporting and raising them. This is a ridiculous viewpoint and one that implicitly places men who date a woman with children as automatic cash cows out of some grossly twisted notion of patriarchy. I wouldn't think something so bloody obvious would need to be spelled out but here we are.

[deleted]

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#483

Post by paulryanrogers »

dsign wrote: post #412
bccdee wrote: post #395

These are some of the opening remarks of this article: > It is usually the young father’s criminal behavior, the spells of incarceration that so often follow, a pattern of intimate violence, his chronic infidelity, and an inability to leave drugs and alcohol alone that cause relationships to falter and die.” > Over the past half-century, the number of men per capita behind bars has more than quadrupled. and this is t…

There is a massive disconnect there. I've met plenty of divorced people and lone-parents which are neither of those. And of course, my own experience is no data of any sort, but I've felt that having an unlimited amount of patience for any partner, or they having it for me, it's not assured on either part. In fact, I've the deepest admiration and respect for people who do manage to live with the same partner for more…

> ...people who do manage to live with the same partner for more than a few years. How do you do it, guys?

There are probably as many answers as there are couples. One idea is just don't have (or look for) any better options. If the only realistic alternative seems to be solitude then the threshold to leave is higher.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#484

Post by big-green-man »

graysonk wrote: post #393
portpecos wrote: post #381

> “Chanel, a white thirty-three-year-old with three children, ages fifteen, nine, and three, broke up with her youngest child’s father just after we met her for the first time. When we ask about him later, she says dismissively, ‘He’s not around no more. I got rid of him…He was only here to sleep—didn’t want to pay no bills, didn’t want to do nothing. When he was here all he did was fight and argue and drink. I had t…

This is an insane level of projection

While I disagree with most od the unsavory stuff said above, I do think there's a nugget of truth in the premise. If you pick a man because he's wearing expensive sneakers you really can't be surprised when he continues to spend his money on expensive sneakers.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#485

Post by beacon294 »

quacked wrote: post #118
beacon294 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration has always been big and has gradually picked up speed. The idea of immigrants going home does not make any historical sense, neither does stopping immigration.

What do you mean that it doesn't "make any historical sense"?

We've never done it that way -- there's no historical precedent. America has done well, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to change that particular thing so radically after over 130 years of similar, but varying, immigration rates to today.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#486

Post by paulryanrogers »

mmaniac wrote: post #470
ashf023 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the article talks about how the men are basically doing whatever they want and women are left as single mothers with multiple kids...

Independence achieved at last, for men and women.

That implies equal choice / responsibility for the kids. If men aren't required to contribute half the work -- or at least some financial equivalent -- then it's not really independence for women at all.

And if the man discourages the woman from developing her own career, then leaves, she's been denied twice.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#487

Post by paulryanrogers »

portpecos wrote: post #381

> “Chanel, a white thirty-three-year-old with three children, ages fifteen, nine, and three, broke up with her youngest child’s father just after we met her for the first time. When we ask about him later, she says dismissively, ‘He’s not around no more. I got rid of him…He was only here to sleep—didn’t want to pay no bills, didn’t want to do nothing. When he was here all he did was fight and argue and drink. I had t…

Visit r/exchristian to find out why the "nice Christian" guys aren't always a great catch. I say this as someone who was a "nice Christian" guy.

And when men sleep around they are just sowing their wild oats. Yet when women do it, it's some kind of unnatural moral failure.

Everyone should be free to explore their own sexuality, without judgement, and with robust education and tools to control their own reproduction.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#488

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

apwell23 wrote: post #131
ragingrobot wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen the sacrifices made to afford those homes? Just because someone owns a home doesn't show the whole picture. There are plenty of Americans that own homes and are struggling to make ends meet elsewhere. Home ownership is set up to consume a person. Miss a payment and there are serious repercussions to one's financial well being, so it becomes a priority. Up to a point, miss a credit card payment and it's…

> There are plenty of Americans that own homes and are struggling to make ends meet elsewhere. They need to downgrade then. Not everyone needs to live in 5 bed mcmansion. I know ppl who bought 100k cars are 'struggling to make ends meet'.

> They need to downgrade then.

Seven of us were living in a 3/3 - when I could no longer afford the monthly payments that doubled via insurance increases. What would you have us downgrade to?

> Not everyone needs to live in 5 bed mcmansion.

This seems like a unproductive assumption and one unlikely to be the rule. Why introduce it into the conversation?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#489

Post by paulryanrogers »

codr7 wrote: post #375
Doches wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being emotionally available, participating in chores, providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time, being reasonably well-read and good conversationalist, etc. I...honestly cannot tell if this is meant ironically. Those things seem like table stakes for being an adult. It's not "expecting more of them" to simply expect people to...grow up, and help care for the other people in their lives. You w…

Pretending there is no difference between men and women is a total dead end. Emotions and social games are a lot trickier to navigate for men, who didn't have umpteen years of evolution to practice. In a lot of ways, we're expecting men to be more like women, and women more like men, while hating each other for it. Divide and conquer, the oldest game in the book.

> In a lot of ways, we're expecting men to be more like women, and women more like men, while hating each other for it.

Can you provide some specifics?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#490

Post by galdosdi »

mmaniac wrote: post #470
ashf023 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the article talks about how the men are basically doing whatever they want and women are left as single mothers with multiple kids...

Independence achieved at last, for men and women.

And so atomized and isolated, we become easier pickings for big capital
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