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Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

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Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#481
post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can see how it might read that way! But you just cannot see how it perhaps reads that way because it actually is precisely that way?

Indeed not. I think most people who have explored their own feelings of envy enough to notice how powerful they can be will read my comment closer to the way I intended it.

Oh yeah, sure, we all have those and they are indeed quite powerful. But still, your original

> > > I think if Sam unifies gravity into quantum theory, brokers peace in the middle east, and cures cancer, we'll still be hearing these complaints—because they're not really grounded either in objective achievement or lack of it.

...certainly reads as if you thought that just because he might do a few good things, that would make all his (presumed) prior evil acts go away / be the figments of jealous imaginations. Would you say the same about, say, Hitler[1] -- if he unified gravity into quantum theory, brokered peace in the middle east, and cured cancer, should we all agree he's a great guy? Would those of us who said "That was great, thanks, but he's still an evil asshole" just be "jealous"?

If not, why should it be any different with Altman?

[1]: And no(, as I'm sure you know), that's not how Godwin's law works.

___

Side note: And I still find it rather sus that the other article, the one that came closest to exonerating him / them, was on the front page for at least twelve hours while this one (apparently, according to other commenters who had followed it) was for max two. "A coincidence that looks aforethought", as the old Swedish saying goes; it certainly didn't look less flamewarry than this, judging from the contents. But if it really was just due to the algorithm, a manual override (either way, bumping this or stomping that) might have improved at least the optics.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#482
post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed not. I think most people who have explored their own feelings of envy enough to notice how powerful they can be will read my comment closer to the way I intended it.

Oh yeah, sure, we all have those and they are indeed quite powerful. But still, your original > > > I think if Sam unifies gravity into quantum theory, brokers peace in the middle east, and cures cancer, we'll still be hearing these complaints—because they're not really grounded either in objective achievement or lack of it. ...certainly reads as if you thought that just because he might do a few good things, that wo…

Too late to edit, so adding here: Not that I'm saying Altman is anywhere near Hitler-level evil, of course. Just reducing the principle ad absurdum.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#483
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs gave Woz half of the base amount, which is what Woz agreed to. Jobs withheld the fact that he was going to receive a bonus on top of the base amount, and did not share any of that money. Was it an ethical mistake? Sure. He should have at least disclosed that he was receiving the bonus money, even if he didn't want to share it. But claiming it was a "major ethical mistake" seems fairly out of touch with rea…

When you decide to hide money from your partner it's not called a "mistake".

Woz in this case was acting as a subcontractor, doing a one-off favor for a friend. This was before they became partners when creating Apple.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#484
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be a "good" and "ethical" person if, throughout your entire professional life, you bully and berate nearly anyone around you?

No. OP is a dangerous fool. These standards are important.

The fools are the people who express more hatred for Steve Jobs than cigarette, oil, and pharma CEOs that irreparably injury and kill millions of humans simple because of his obnoxious methods of demanding the best from his highly privileged teammates.

Standards are important. So is perspective.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all accounts, he was an incredible bully not just to his employees but also to his family as well. He refused to recognize his daughter even after a paternity test, and despite being a multi millionaire 1000 times over only paid child support when forced to by the courts. Does that sound like the behavior of a good and ethical person?

Shhhhh, he's the patron saint of the tech world, and you're on HN -- do you really expect a large percentage of folks here to share your views? FWIW, I think he did understand some very fundamental truths about how to sell technology to the masses, but he definitely diverged from Alan Kay's philosophy outlined in "Dynabook". IMO, he's less of a "savior" and more of a "god-tier salesperson". Edit: I mentioned the "Dyn…

In fact, the average person in Silicon Valley is as clueless as you are about Steve Jobs and would agree he was merely a good salesperson.

But people that know what it takes to build great products almost universally respect his world-class design and leadership, and even his deep technical knowledge.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#486
post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed not. I think most people who have explored their own feelings of envy enough to notice how powerful they can be will read my comment closer to the way I intended it.

Oh yeah, sure, we all have those and they are indeed quite powerful. But still, your original > > > I think if Sam unifies gravity into quantum theory, brokers peace in the middle east, and cures cancer, we'll still be hearing these complaints—because they're not really grounded either in objective achievement or lack of it. ...certainly reads as if you thought that just because he might do a few good things, that wo…

I figure we've each made our points about envy and jealousy and whatnot but I feel like I need to address the "sus" business. I explained what happened with the current thread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40437018 - users flagged it and it set off the flamewar detector.

The difference with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40448045 is that the latter story contained Significant New Information (SNI) relative to other recent threads. That's the criterion we apply when deciding whether or not to override penalties (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...). It doesn't have to do with who an article is for or against; it has to do with not having the same discussions over and over.

> a manual override [...] might have improved at least the optics

Sure, and we often do that (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...), but in this case it didn't cross my mind because the current thread was so obviously derivative of previous discussions that had been on HN's front page for 18+ hours in recent days.

And in any case the next day it flipped back and this story spent 16 hours on the front page:

Leaked OpenAI documents reveal aggressive tactics toward former employees - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40447431 - May 2024 (515 comments)

... so I think we're good on "optics". The important point is that the last link (the vox.com article) contained SNI, whereas the slate.com article was a copycat piece piggybacking on other reporting . In the case of a Major Ongoing Topic (MOT) like this one, that's the key distinction: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would put this in the "better to ask for forgiveness than ask than permission" bucket. Which is also a typical mentality in SV.

But they did ask permission, and were denied.

And moved fast and broke things anyway, which is also typical of SV entitlement.
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