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Why is it so hard to build an airport?

construction-physics.com

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Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#481

Post by lukan »

kaashif wrote: post #337
pif wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> make it very inconvenient for passengers and staff to approach the airport by other means Absolutely not! High-speed train have many advantages, but serving stations with large, long-term parking lots is not one of them. After all, you don't need to disincentivize the approach: you just need to make it clear that the airport is there to stay, and maybe to grow three-fold, and that noise complaints will never be rec…

> noise complaints will never be receivable. But they are always receivable. Complainers will vote, will take control of local government, will lobby state and national government... "Complaints aren't receivable" policies never last.

'"Complaints aren't receivable" policies never last.'

Oh depends, you can always build some gulags and get rid of those annoying elections. It's crazy how quick you are into dictatorship realm, with some harmles sounding ideas taken one step further.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#482

Post by sofixa »

drstewart wrote: post #457
sofixa wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Paris and was recently in the US, and I strongly disagree - US cities have much less greenery, be it trees on the streets, mini parks or big parks. Most French cities have parks all over the place, and in general lots of squares with trees, random trees on the streets, etc.

I live in the US and was recently and Paris and I strongly much more disagree. Paris was claustrophobic it was such an urban hellscape. There's a reason Haussmann wanted to raze it to the ground.

He did raze much of it to the ground, and created a number of parks and two forests in the process, as well as trees on pretty much any new street. Even the very old (medieval) parts like the Latin Quarter and Marais have mini parks all around.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#483

Post by jen729w »

doctor_eval wrote: post #468
jen729w wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to live above a Japanese bar in the centre of Melbourne, Australia. It was a busy street in a busy part of town. (Robot, for the locals.) Of course this place was sold, both to renters and buyers, as ‘hip’, it was ‘the inner-city lifestyle’, it was ‘everything on your doorstep’. And yet the neighbours. My god what cretins. Noise! On a weekend! They couldn’t bear it. I think it should be flat-out forbidden to c…

Robot is a great bar! I used to work in Flinders Lane, it’s the best part of Melbourne. Still grab lunch from Yen Sushi Noodles in Centre Place when I visit. But yeah it would be noisy. Great spot to live for a while if you’re young. A lot of my favourite places didn’t make it post Covid tho.

Ha! I bet I've seen you in there. Yeah we were in our 30s, absolutely loved it. This was from 2007-2010~ish.

I can't believe Robot survived. Yoshi's done well there.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#484

Post by sofixa »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #272
sofixa wrote: post #126

> And an airport can’t be too far from a city and remain useful, since travelers need to access the city, workers need to be within commuting distance, and so on. In Canada, Mirabel airport was built 35 miles from Montreal, surrounded by a 79,000 acre buffer zone to prevent any issues of incompatible land use. Mirabel was expected to replace Dorval (today Montreal-Trudeau) as Canada’s main eastern airport, but, in pa…

It sounds like basically all of the issues amount to “it was too far away to be convenient.”

No.

They split the traffic between domestic and international making Montreal no longer useful as an interchange hub.

They failed to implement any proper connections to the city itself, which is related to but not due to the distance.

They also failed to place the airport in between two cities to have a bigger market for it.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#485

Post by satellite2 »

> Similarly, not only are many of the users of an airport tourists who don’t live in the area, but at hub airports they might merely pass through without interacting with the local region at all.

Why not create hub only airports (in the middle of nowhere) and enforce them via no hub policies around cities?

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#487

Post by Fatnino »

satellite2 wrote: post #485

> Similarly, not only are many of the users of an airport tourists who don’t live in the area, but at hub airports they might merely pass through without interacting with the local region at all. Why not create hub only airports (in the middle of nowhere) and enforce them via no hub policies around cities?

Staffed by people flown in daily from some city half an hour flight away?

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#488

Post by resonantjacket5 »

subzidion wrote: post #52

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

> There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation.

The commission was hampered by rules that stated they couldn't look into increasing the existing airports capacity.

"Survey responses also conveyed members’ views on what kind of options the Legislature permitted them to consider — the 2019 legislation prohibited considering sites in King County, or those near military bases. Some members noted that those constraints hindered their search efforts, with some doubting whether it’s possible to have a new airport operational by 2040." https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/state...

The "next" airport is basically just expanding SeaTac. There's plans to add a second terminal in SAMP https://www.portseattle.org/sites/default/files/2018-06/1805... And then even WSDOT's project for the new 509 extension is to allow freight traffic to reach the seatac airport.

Outside of that the other regional airport to be used is king county international airport -- even back in 2005 southwest looked into using it.

Paine field, while it has the capacity is not where the demand is for passengers. Secondly, I don't think many people realize the bottleneck for SeaTac airport is not just passenger traffic but freight traffic. It's why the airport commission keeps choosing sites south of Seattle aka Pierce County or Thurston County because it's close to the port of tacoma. They aren't going to choose Paine field.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#489

Post by throwway120385 »

resonantjacket5 wrote: post #488
subzidion wrote: post #52

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

> There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. The commission was hampered by rules that stated they couldn't look into increasing the exi…

Paine field is already loud as hell all the time so I'm glad it's a non-starter.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#490

Post by 7952 »

perlgeek wrote: post #63
subzidion wrote: post #52

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

> One of the interesting ideas [...] is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. While reading this article, I thought about something like that too. Build an airport quite a while away from the big city, and provide a high-speed, maybe even maglev train there. Make it free for customers. Also, make it very inconvenient for passengers and staff to approach the airport…

That is often the experience already when using a big hub airport. Because by their very nature they draw people in from across a region. And that naturally leeds to congestion and inconvenience. Rail is a help but may not be fast if you don't live close to the right stations.

I think hubs are often setup to serve airlines running lots of connecting flight rather than the regional population. They would be happier flying out of a small local airport on a narrowbody and flying direct or connecting elsewhere.

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