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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#481

Post by itsoktocry »

ajross wrote: post #421
seanw444 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the model would be making wise guesses based on the statistics.

Oooph again. Which is the root of the problem. The statement "All American criminals are black" is, OK, maybe true to first order (I don't have stats and I'm not going to look for them). But, first, on a technical level first order logic like that leads to bad decisions. And second, it's clearly racist . And people don't want their products being racist. That desire is pretty clear, right? It's not "systemic racism"…

>"All American criminals are black"

I'm not even sure it's worth arguing, but who ever says that? Why go to a strawman?

However, looking at the data, if you see that X race commits crime (or is the victim of crime) at a rate disproportionate to their place in the population, is that racist? Or is it useful to know to work on reducing crime?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#482

Post by FlyingSnake »

sharpneli wrote: post #306
anonymoushn wrote: post #269

It's amusing that the diversity-promoting prompt includes native Americans but excludes all other indigenous peoples.

It was extra hilarious when asked to generate a picture of ancient Greek philosopher it made it a Native American. Because it is well known Greeks not only had contact with the new world but also had prominent population of Native Americans. It really wants to mash the whole world to a very specific US centric view of the world, and calls you bad for trying to avoid it.

> it is well known Greeks not only had contact with the new world but also had prominent population of Native Americans.

I’m really surprised to hear this tidbit, because I thought Leif Erickson was then first one from the old world to do venture there. Did Ancient Greeks really made contact with the Native Americans?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#483

Post by chillfox »

empath-nirvana wrote: post #387
34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

There is an _actual problem_ that needs to be solved. If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else. If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or…

My feeling is that it should default to be based on your location, same as search.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#485

Post by itsoktocry »

rondini wrote: post #454
34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

Are you seriously claiming that the actual systemic racism in our society is discrimination against white people? I just struggle to imagine someone holding this belief in good faith.

>I just struggle to imagine someone holding this belief in good faith.

Because you're racist against white people.

"All white people are privileged" is a racist belief.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#486

Post by lolinder »

ajross wrote: post #402
34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

> actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture Ooph. The projection here is just too much. People jumping straight across all the reasonable interpretations straight to the maximal conspiracy theory. Surely this is just a bug. ML has always had trouble with "racism" accusations, but for years it went in the other direction . Remember all the coverage of "I asked for a picture of a criminal…

You're suggesting that during all of the testing at Google of this product before release, no one thought to ask it to generate white people to see if it could do so?

And in that case, you want us to believe that that testing protocol isn't a systematic exclusionary behavior?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#487

Post by stronglikedan »

34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

> actual systemic racism

That's a bogeyman. There's racism for sure, especially since 44 greatly rejuvenated it during his term, but it's far from systematic.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#488

Post by samatman »

empath-nirvana wrote: post #387
34679 wrote: post #277

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot. Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice blac…

There is an _actual problem_ that needs to be solved. If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else. If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or…

> If you ask generative AI for a picture of a "nurse", it will produce a picture of a white woman 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else.

> If you ask a generative AI for a picture of a "software engineer", it will produce a picture of a white guy 100% of the time, without some additional prompting or fine tuning that encourages it to do something else.

These are invented problems. The default is irrelevant and doesn't convey some overarching meaning, it's not a teachable moment, it's a bare fact about the system. If I asked for a basketball player in an 1980s Harlem Globetrotters outfit, spinning a basketball, I would expect him to be male and black.

If what I wanted was a buxom redheaded girl with freckles, in a Harlem Globetrotters outfit, spinning a basketball, I'd expect to be able to get that by specifying.

The ham-handed prompt injection these companies are using to try and solve this made-up problem people like you insist on having, is standing directly in the path of a system which can reliably fulfill requests like that. Unlike your neurotic insistence that default output match your completely arbitrary and meaningless criteria, that reliability is actually important, at least if what you want is a useful generative art program.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#489

Post by itsoktocry »

edgyquant wrote: post #274
londons_explore wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineers can easily spend more time and effort dealing with these 'corner cases' than they do building the whole of the rest of the product.

This isn’t a corner case it injects words like inclusive or diverse into the prompt right in front of you. “A German family in 1820” because “a diverse series of German families”

And it ignores male gendering. People were posting pictures of women when the prompt asked for a "king".
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