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Goodbye non-KISS appliances

willbush.dev

481–490 of 499 posts

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#481
post #247

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Even appliances that aren't internet connected are going down this terrible UX path. My old washing machine had nobs (dials) you turn. You put the clothes and soap in, close the door and press the button. My preference of type of wash and water temperature were all "saved" by the nob position. My current washing machine, nob is type of wash, capacitive touch buttons for everything else. Keeping the nob "on" keeps the…

knobs are more expensive :(

Yes, but we are talking about saving cents on hundreds of dollars here. We really need to come up with better ways to make companies bear the cost of their shitty cost cutting measures.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little confused about these fridge posts. There are refrigerators that do not have any tech that will last [most likely] longer than you stay in your home. I've had multiple Subzero basic commodity or commercial refrigerators last 15-20 years with only minor parts replacements which are easily found. Of course these are not cheap, but isn't that what everyone here is asking for? Something made well that lasts a…

People SAY that want well made, simple things. But people will generally not PAY FOR simple, well made things when much cheaper options are available. You and I might, and many others as well. But the vast majority of folks will not pay more for a higher quality, longer lasting item. Another example is Speed Queen for washers and dryers. They are substantially more expensive and look very plain and even old fashioned…

People are used to being sold overcomplicated cheaply made things priced the same as well made things. Paying more is hardly ever a guarantee of getting better quality so without any ability to tell if something is actually good it does make more sense to go with the cheaper option.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#484
post #70

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By now, making UI with (by now not completely) SPA frameworks specifically made for that task is just better developer experience. I won't go back to pretty much html string concation via templates. Why do people keep pretending it's better in any way is lost on me.

Yeah the backlash against SPAs doesn’t make any sense. Server side rendering is fine for documentation etc. but full applications don’t want to be simulated on a server, client-server makes complete sense.

Theres about zero websites I use that I want to be "full applications". For things that should be applications I prefer native (open source) desktop programs.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#485

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I don’t share this position. Webservers shall create and provide the readily HTML so browsers can render the website without JavaScript. Actually text-browsers should render it and also allow disabled persons using it without hassle. Instead SPA (or more direct JavaScript) is used to force the browser to assemble the HTML and it is slow and waste resources. Creating website which create load on the client-site is bad…

I agree you’re right in that the current tech stack is bad. But the answer is to fix that, and I think (very) slowly we will. JS was a terrible language but nowadays it is pretty good in some areas, passable in others, with some horror shows left in. The ecosystem and tooling are the real problems. I don’t understand why these issues haven’t been addressed by Google et al. Native applications are just so much more ex…

> Native applications are just so much more expensive to develop and maintain.

Quality isn't free, yes.

> Given the nuances of different platforms, it’s also very difficult to keep different versions in sync.

Don't tightly couple applications and backend service versions (where a backend is even needed, otherwise make it all local) and this is not a problem. You should be using open (relatively stable) protocols wherever possible anyway.

Web apps "solve" platform differences by completely disregarding them and expecting users to adapt to the application instead. This does not make them better.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which begs the question - what not-yet-in-the-spotlight chemical crap makes this happen? Since ingredients are the same, devices are the same yet they last longer as you mention. Maybe something about vastly different food quality standards between the sides of the pond.

We buy lactose free milk because it lasts much longer

How long do your need to store your milk? Regular UHT milk is already good for months.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree you’re right in that the current tech stack is bad. But the answer is to fix that, and I think (very) slowly we will. JS was a terrible language but nowadays it is pretty good in some areas, passable in others, with some horror shows left in. The ecosystem and tooling are the real problems. I don’t understand why these issues haven’t been addressed by Google et al. Native applications are just so much more ex…

> Native applications are just so much more expensive to develop and maintain. Quality isn't free, yes. > Given the nuances of different platforms, it’s also very difficult to keep different versions in sync. Don't tightly couple applications and backend service versions (where a backend is even needed, otherwise make it all local) and this is not a problem. You should be using open (relatively stable) protocols wher…

Yep.

Quality isn’t free and native applications provide quality (reliance, performance, integration, usability).

The platform issues just moved to WebKit, Blink and Gecko. New platform issues and the web developers complain like application developers ;)

Companies favor the web usually to lower their own cost, give them control over users and being free of rules. Users pay for it. With higher hardware requirements (Electron), loss of data, loss of control and the absence of usability. And as states above, a website shall not stress my CPU or RAM.

The worst example is Microsoft Teams. The best example is your preferred Matrix client application.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn’t mention the evap heater. What could LG have done differently to fix your fridge to factory spec?

Pretty much everything else could be done differently: - Calling in a warranty claim involved going through a troubleshooting script that wanted me to do things that my fridge could not do. LG needs to get their documentation in order so that their call center staff can at least approach being useful. - LG punted me to an authorized service center first thing. I'm in the Bay Area which should, IMO, be a large enough…

My experience went on for ~6 months of soap opera, similar to what you're describing, where an authorized service provider would "fix" it, and then it would stop cooling within a week or two. Then LG, or the authorized center, would diagnose some other thing that hadn't been replaced. No actual leaks were ever found, which was the problem after they replaced the compressor (the first thing they replaced, but it was on the 2nd trip), and now they had access points to check the pressure.

With the bonus that in our particular case, we were paying for the "labor" and getting the parts under warranty, which means that in the end I paid ~$1000 for repairs and LG claimed to have provided ~$1200 worth of parts (which is bullshit because an aluminum evaporator coil doesn't cost $400 unless it has a 20x retail markup). So, when they sent a check, it covered our sunk costs. But I had a fridge with a brand new compressor, evaporator, and condenser, as well as an upgraded control board/etc. This is part of the reason I took a crack and just ran it without the Yoder loop.

So, a couple of points: some other companies fix yoder loop leaks by bypassing them and feeding factory-provided heating coils through the now vacant line.

Also, the LG parts all had copper brazing points, so the tech never had to work with aluminum/steel directly.

Finally, I wonder, after your initial comment, if there was just a problem with the refrigerant charge, which was causing your fan to ice over as a byproduct because it was slightly under/overcharged from the factory.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everything else could be done differently: - Calling in a warranty claim involved going through a troubleshooting script that wanted me to do things that my fridge could not do. LG needs to get their documentation in order so that their call center staff can at least approach being useful. - LG punted me to an authorized service center first thing. I'm in the Bay Area which should, IMO, be a large enough…

Ah you’re not OP. Sorry, I was only interested in why OP called techs “idiots” after they (eventually) correctly diagnosed an unfixable fridge.

They never actually diagnosed it, I did. They just kept replacing things until they decided they couldn't actually fix it and sent a check. At no point did LG or the authorized center actually find a leak, or suggest that it might be leaking from the yoder loop. They would come out with their leak detection equipment (both sniffers and after the dryer replacement, a UV light to detect the dye) fail to find a leak, and just replace the next thing on the list. Which usually was a three trip process for each item they replaced with a few days/week or so while they ordered the part, and queued the work detail.

I had the yoder loop conversation with the tech on the last call when they came out to verify it was still broken/unfixable, and he basically said bypassing it wasn't possible, which is odd since other companies can.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#490

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> Please, stop falling for the Kurzweil and Singularity crap. It's just the nerd version of the coming of the Messiah, with an extra dose of hubris on top. I don't know who you are talking about. It's my own thoughts. I'm not falling for at least anyone else's crap. If it's crap, then it's my own crap that I'm falling for. > I don't care enough to sacrifice my present to pursue some crazy Singularity and I certainly…

You keep arguing based on how you believe things should be instead of how they actually are . Do you realize how pointless this discussion is? And unless you have a way to show you are actively working to bring your ideas into reality, do you realize how naive and/or full of BS you sound?

> You keep arguing based on how you believe things should be instead of how they actually are. Do you realize how pointless this discussion is? And unless you have a way to show you are actively working to bring your ideas into reality, do you realize how naive and/or full of BS you sound?

I'm trying to problem solve here, because I want to see this tech.

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