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Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

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Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#481

Post by importantbrian »

nine_k wrote: post #341
intended wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add one major change that the work from home experiment has achieved - its made the opportunity cost of the work commute clear. This is a time cost paid for by the worker. As you stated, this is variable. If you have a short commute, or you like it, or you get some exercise - office is great. If you hate your commute, if its 3 hours in pollution and traffic - not so much. Earlier the position was that WFH was…

BTW this is where commute by public transport shines. My 30 minutes to the office are my dedicated reading time, an hour a day. If instead I had to drive, that would be lost time, because paying enough attention to the book distracts enough from driving to add unnecessary risk.

Getting the extra reading time is nice, and if I didn't have a family I'd be all about that. But for me I get to spend mornings and evenings with my son, but if I had to commute half an hour then the morning would become just a rush to get him to daycare and the evening I might get to see him for a few minutes before he goes to bed. Sure the hour of reading would be nice but it would greatly diminish the quality time I'm able to spend with the little man.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#482

Post by importantbrian »

hospitalJail wrote: post #233
vidarh wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During my last job change I gave concrete numbers to recruiters on what getting me into an office would cost. In the end I ended up working remote, which is what I preferred, which wasn't surprising given how much the commuting time was worth to me.

For me it was: >Company A is 2.5 hours of drive time >Company B is remote Pay is the same. lol I imagine that Company A will find some sucker, but instead of getting A+ workers that can realize company B> company A, they are going to get the leftover workers, their second choice. To be fair, leftover workers seem to stick around at a company for 10-20 years.

I don't think that's entirely true. I know a few A+ people who enjoy being in the office and hate working from home. I don't know how many of those folks there are, but I don't think company A would be totally stuck with leftover workers.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#483

Post by jq-r »

ponector wrote: post #329
realusername wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see any change at all personally, I do live in Europe though. The best talents globally are going to be paid at a rough similar level outside of the big tech giants. As we go forward, the monetary gain of outsourcing is trending down, it's already less worth it than 10 years ago. Remote working plays against outsourcing in my opinion, nobody wants to be underpaid, including talents in lower cost of living ar…

Maybe you are living in IT centers like Amsterdam or Berlin, but anywhere in south or east Europe 100k USD annual salary is almost unreachable for local employment. Best talents are not paid at the similar level globally. Even tech giants like Google have different salary for same levels in different countries inside EU. You can get x2 if you move from Warsaw to Dublin or x3 if you move to Zurich.

> Maybe you are living in IT centers like Amsterdam or Berlin, but anywhere in south or east Europe 100k USD annual salary is almost unreachable for local employment.

100K is indeed very high for S or E Europe, but in my experience there are very very few people who actually get that kind of money. Any of those are absolutely on the top end of a bell curve. Also I'm quite certain that the quantity of those kind of workers vs remote workers in USA is less than 1%.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#484

Post by phillc73 »

steveBK123 wrote: post #392
lacrimacida wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me I'd rather work 11-12 hours/day at home then go into office How sustainable is to work 11-12 hours a day though? If we do 5 hours of intense work and the rest is spent in meetings or other overhead activities make 8 hours just enough to make it sustainable over long periods of time…

Let's put it this way. I'm expected to be readily accessible for 9-10 hours/day, and reachable for some hours outside of that. I have some operational responsibilities in the morning, maybe 1~3 hours of meetings and fully understood we get in far less than 5 hours of intense work. People are generally cool with me being totally away from desk for lunch. How I spend the time in between in terms of doing research/readi…

> I'm expected to be readily accessible for 9-10 hours/day

Why? Are you contracted for 45-50 hours per week? Or if contracted less, are you compensated for the additional hours?

I'm contracted for 38.5 hours per week. That's 8.125 hours Monday to Thursday and 6.00 on Friday. If I work longer than this I am compensated with time off in lieu. I do have to log my time daily. Overall works great. I'm fairly paid and have a good lifestyle.

I actually find it hard to imagine working 9-10 hours every day for any extended time period.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#485

Post by dmoy »

dmoy wrote: post #464
hnbad wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this economy? Maybe not in your income bracket.

In the US at least, it's like 2:1 ratio, maybe 30-35% of families with kids have a stay at home parent. So, less common, but not an incredible outlier.

What's somewhat interesting is that at both very low and very high income levels, the % of stay-at-home parent is higher. So for people near poverty, or people making top 1%-ish income, it's less than a 2:1 ratio, more like 35-40%. For middle income like $40k-$100k, it's more like 3:1 or 4:1.

At no income level is it lower than 20% stay at home parent though, so not too much of an outlier in any case.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#486

Post by tomtheelder »

RestlessMind wrote: post #461
hwillis wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being silly. The majority of the world also doesn't have access to airplanes, but that doesn't mean they don't work . OP is certainly not in the ridiculous bubble you're describing.

OP's words: "Thankfully the US is a major outlier in this aspect globally." I don't think OP understands the meaning of the word globally

We need to keep in mind the framing of this- it’s a discussion about commuting vs wfh. In the universe of locations where that’s a serious conversation the US is an outlier in terms of poor public transit.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#487

Post by tomtheelder »

RestlessMind wrote: post #460
rcbdev wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think comparing the developing world with the USA makes in any way sense - do you actually think the US is at the developmental level of India? When comparing similarly wealthy countries the US is absolutely an outlier in this.

> Why would you think comparing the developing world with the USA makes in any way sense Because you said - "Thankfully the US is a major outlier in this aspect globally ." "Globally" implies the entire world. Now why are you moving the goalposts? If you wanted to confine the discussion to the developed world, just call out US being an outlier in the developed world .

I think it was obvious what they meant given context.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#488

Post by hospitalJail »

coldpie wrote: post #463
hospitalJail wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human brain is incredible at rationalization.

In this thread, hospitalJail discovers that some people enjoy leaving their basement :)

STRAWMAN Flag this. No one is arguging for isolation

I love to go to the park with my kids. I love going to parties.

I don't like sitting in my car unpaid to do work that doesnt require sitting in the car unpaid.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#489

Post by tomtheelder »

michaelmrose wrote: post #399
pc86 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyperbole and language like this is exactly why it's so hard to have this debate in any rational way. The onsite crowd says that all their WFH colleagues are playing video games and doing laundry all day while the WFH crowd says employers are stealing from their employees' children.

I don't think the WFH crowd minds others going into the office. The pro onsite crowd on the other hand wants others forced into the office because their choice is unsupportable if people are given a free choice. >98% of workers want to work remote at least some of the time 65% report wanting to work remote all of the time. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/remote-work-statisti... If 1/3 of your workforce meets…

Although you’re probably right, I think you’ve got the motivation of the pro office crowd wrong. They want folks in office because if any significant part of your team is remote then you are effectively working remote, even if you’re in an office.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#490

Post by iamthirsty »

intended wrote: post #453
jltsiren wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MMO generation already entered the workforce a long time ago. Many of them are now middle-aged professionals. But because MMOs have always been a relatively niche hobby, with even the most popular games having only a few million daily players, their impact has not been that significant. They are a small minority in the overall workforce, and while they do have effective remote working habits, they have been self-…

I think that was the reminder that I am very much middle aged now. You are right, however I would say that raids and coordinated e-sports were on the periphery when I was playing. I had to set up my own teams and lan tournaments. Nice distinction to highlight though, thank you! The skill set would require specific coordination skills, not just being able to play team matches occasionally. I suppose its proof that the…

Also, I think you're referencing a skill from something that people want to do — play a video game — to work, where it's something much harder to keep people focused on.

As a manager, with both WFH and in-office employees, the difference is very clear on my end: In-office employees do undeniably better. In my personal experience, of course.

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