Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Is there a reason why you created an account specifically for this comment thread?
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The pro-Israel information war
481–490 of 1001 posts
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#482What an absolute mind-fuck. I think the greatest thing the Moscow-Teheran-Beijing "bot army diplomacy doctrine" is showing us is that you can radicalize both the US right AND the US Left at the same time by speaking to each side's idiocies at full throat. We are nearing Elders of Zion territory here where the ratio of 2 Billion Muslims to 15 Million Jews, and thus the constant stream of anti-Israeli propaganda, now c…
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Re: The pro-Israel information war
#483Earlier quoted context omitted.
> equally abohorrent Comparing it to the Ukraine's invasion and we can see this is so much more "invasive". There's a literal wall around 2M ppl with little agency, while most of them are refugees from the other side of the wall. To methis is one of the most abohorrent conflicts in earth in this day and age. Given South Africa is no longer segregated, and Rwanda reconciled. I'd be interested to hear what's equally ab…
Gaza has been pseudo self governed since 2005, and is ruled by an authoritarian theocratic regime. The situation was intolerable on 10/6 but understood. What exactly should israel do after the 10/7 attacks. To me attempting to degrade Hamas is what any other state would do. War in one of the most densely populated places on earth is going to kill a lot of people. The only other option it would seem to me would be to…
During Second World War the Czech resistance assassinated Reich Protector Reinhard Heydrich. To exact revenge the Nazis destroyed the village of Lidice and murdered 340 villagers. If we had social media back then, people would have made the same argument you now do. That the Germans had no choice but to eradicate the village. Because, hey, the only other option would be to ignore the attacks which surely wouldn't have been acceptable to any German.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#484Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think that parent is suggesting that platforms are actively prioritising one over the other. I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances, and the fact that the apps are not available in some markets. As a result, certain views are prioritised as a byproduct of the fact that all modern social media apps have an algorithm th…
The majority of the world is against Israel's occupation of Palestine, a stance that is reflected in numerous UN General Assembly votes. Holding a pro-Israel position in this context represents a very US centric view, which is not similarly echoed in the rest of the world.
>The majority of the world is against Israel's occupation of Palestine
The majority of the global ruling class is for Israel's occupation of Palestine.
History is incomprehensible if we ignore class conflict.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#485Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Recall that Palestine's goal is to eliminate all Jews. No, that's not Palestine’s goal. Its not even clearly the goal of the Palestinian Islamist extremist group Israel fostered specifically to have a less sympathetic enemy to deflect pressure for peace with Palestine to use as a pretext for perpetual war, though it may be, and whose fault is that?
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Don‘t be a fool. Read books by Ilan Pappe, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, and you’ll realise it’s the total opposite. Israel has killed 6400 Palestinians prior to 7/10 in 15 years. On the other hand around 300 Israelis were killed. And then look at 75 years back. Google Irgun, Deir Yassin masscare, the right to return for Palestinians, google how 700,000 settlements were built on Palestinian land. And then rethink your post.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#486Earlier quoted context omitted.
> chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country) What is the truth of that? I've seen Israeli advocates make that claim and many repeat it. I've also seen an explainer in legitimate source (maybe the NY Times?) say that it means both Palestinians and Jews should be free. Does anyone have some actual, authoritative information? Something from before October 7th might be good. > saying Isra…
River to the Sea has clear meaning regarding the establishment of palestine and the eradication of israel. You can draw a very neat line between the number of jews currently permitted to live peacefully in palestine vs the number of muslims living within israel. its not complicated, confusing, unclear or opaque. River to the Sea means to end the israeli state, and the end of that does not have a happy ending for any…
Jews, Muslims and Christians have lived in that region relatively peacefully for a long time.
The end of Israel as an exclusionary apartheid state does not have to mean the end of Jews living there, in a pluralist state guaranteeing equal access to Christians, Jews and Muslims to their holy sites and shared ancestral homeland.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#487Earlier quoted context omitted.
> equally abohorrent Comparing it to the Ukraine's invasion and we can see this is so much more "invasive". There's a literal wall around 2M ppl with little agency, while most of them are refugees from the other side of the wall. To methis is one of the most abohorrent conflicts in earth in this day and age. Given South Africa is no longer segregated, and Rwanda reconciled. I'd be interested to hear what's equally ab…
The wall wasn’t always there. Just like how the wall trump put between US and Mexico wasn’t always there. Actions have consequences and the West Bank situation regressed from continued suicide bombing and terrorist attackers.
Afaik there was already a wall pre-Trump
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#488Re: The pro-Israel information war
#489I'm not trying to deflect, but I do find it interesting that just 2 months ago, >100K Armenians were permanently displaced from their homes in Nagorno-Karabakh where they've lived for literally millenia, and I saw essentially no coverage of this in Western media (in contrast, it was all over Russian media, possibly because Armenia is a historical ally of Russia and a lot of Russians are frustrated that Russia and the…
You do point some interesting points.
Note that the issue in not the Nakba anymore. From memory Oslo was about giving to a demilitarize Palestinian state about 10% of the Palestine mandate territory mostly in "islands" controlled by Israel, then progressively over a long period, increasing it to 22%, with quite no hope to get East Jerusalem back. And now (even before oct. 7) that seems impossible, far too much for the Israelis. (in 1992 89% of the population was "Palestinian")
In general westerners don't care about what happen abroad when there is nothing connected to them. In French media we have seen many stuff about Nagorno-Karabakh (with an Armenian point of view), because there are Armenian in France, and because it fits the narrative of the clash of civilizations Christian Vs Muslim. But it was far, in unimportant countries for us, few dead, no suspense, nothing spectacular...
Israel Palestine is another beast :
- Jerusalem in Holly for half of the world population and most westerners
- Israel as been important in US politics for decades (partly because of the first point) and the USA are direct and strong ally
- Most non western country have been colonized or assaulted by westerners in "recent" history... This conflict is also the echo and symbol of this : westerners assaulting non westerners (while giving moral lesson to the world)
- For some westerners that is the echo of Muslim and terrorists attacking westerners - us (9 11, Paris attack are in all minds), and for some kind of a symbol of the clash of civilization
- And this is happening now, with a lot of pictures, media coverage, with new images everyday, some suspense, some twist...
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#490Earlier quoted context omitted.
The question is, what is so special about the Israeli/Palestine conflict that leads to these outsized protests? I do not recollect a similar response to the treatment of ISIS or the war in Yemen, even though both had the unconditional support of the US war machine. Even if the left could be absolved of antisemitism, the resistance groups it is aligning itself with clearly can not.
One answer is these media efforts. Isreal works hard to draw attention to its conflicts, and to try to turn that attention into support. I'd note the Ukranians worked very hard to draw attention to their war as well, and they were quite successful at that.
Think of it the other way around - the only real weapon Hamas has against the much stronger Israel is shifting public opinion, so it's in their incentive to bring as much negative attention as possible to Israel in the conflict