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Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

nytimes.com

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Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#481

Post by jcranmer »

tptacek wrote: post #362
constantly wrote: post #244

For anyone curious, Ken White has a good and entertaining article breaking down maximum sentences in print (here, 110 years) and what people actually serve. It's worth a read: https://www.popehat.com/2013/02/05/crime-whale-sushi-sentenc... A takeaway: "1. Maximum sentences have very little relation to actual sentences in federal law. When the government quotes the maximum sentence, they are trying to scare you. When…

The opposite thing is going to happen in this case, and I'm sure you'll hear Ken on Serious Trouble saying the same thing next week (you can get Andrew McCarthy, another former AUSA, saying the same thing in the National Review today if you want that with a dash of anti-woke conservative racial politics). In basic economic crimes, sentences scale primarily with dollar losses, and FTX lost billions. He's going to do s…

Another thing that makes this case difficult is that SBF kind of breaks the sentencing guidelines. He starts at the highest possible base offense level for fraud, so he's in a position where every point haggled over is worth years of sentence time. And this also means statutory maximum sentences come into effect, and I personally don't know how that interacts when you've got multiple charges.

I believe the statutory maximum for fraud is 20 years, and so I suspect that's the minimum that he's going to be in prison for.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#482

Post by dragonwriter »

lenerdenator wrote: post #392
avarun wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like 110-120

That's what's possible if sentencing guidelines weren't a thing. Jeff Skilling (Enron) was convicted on more counts and ended up serving 14 of a 24-year sentence. Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos got 11 years and 3 months.

> That's what's possible if sentencing guidelines weren't a thing.

It's what possible given the facts in this case under the guidelines, too.

> Jeff Skilling (Enron) was convicted on more counts and ended up serving 14 of a 24-year sentence.

The number of charges isn't the driving factor in calculating total punishment under the sentencing guidelines.

The Wire Fraud charge alone, looks like it gets a Offense Level of:

7 (base) + 30 (amount of loss over $550 million) + (breadth of victim impact between 2 [more than 10 victims, irrespective of degree of hardship] and 6 [caused substantial financial hardship to at least 25 victims]) + (2 for a substantial amount of the fraudulent scheme conducted outside of the US) for a total of 41 to 45.

The maximum level in the guidelines, calling for a life sentence (but limited by the aggregate total maximum sentence of the charged offenses if none support a life sentence), regardless of criminal history category, is 43.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#483

Post by dghlsakjg »

epolanski wrote: post #399
Gustomaximus wrote: post #389

I'm curious how the sentencing goes, not only for SBF but those around him that took deals. In my limited view of US cases, it often seems prosecutors let off lightly anyone that will testify in return for their whale. Sometimes feels it's more symbolic justice that way than real.

I'm not American, but it's my understanding that there's more scrutiny on prosecutors to "nail" and close cases due to the stupid double jeopardy rule. You lose the chance to convict a criminal, you lose your face and the chance to see him behind bars.

Double jeopardy is a relatively common protection and predates the United States.

All of Europe, India, all of the Americas, and any other country that inherited English common law are among the majority of countries on earth that have this protection in one form or another.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#487

Post by dragonwriter »

CSMastermind wrote: post #92
xezzed wrote: post #36

So what's his term in jail?

We don't know yet, sentencing is separate from the trial that determines innocence or guilt. Now there will be another hearing in March during which the judge will consider all of the evidence (even that which wasn't allowed in the original trial) to determine what his punishment should be. The judge will have to abide by the federal sentencing guidelines which specify the punishments and severity they can apply but…

> The judge will have to abide by the federal sentencing guidelines

The judge will probably adhere to the sentencing guidelines (and will almost certainly use them as a starting point if not), but the guidelines are, like the Pirate Code, "more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules". The Supreme Court has ruled that the judges are constitutionally empowered to depart in either direction from the guidelines sentences within the statutory minimum and maximum for the offenses on which the offender is convicted.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#488

Post by xray2 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #479
saeranv wrote: post #474

I sure hope all the HN commentators confidently predicting this would never happen because of his large donations to the democrats see this.

90% of them will never willingly admit they were wrong.

I don’t remember a single person even claiming that. HN delusion is real.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted

#490

Post by xNeil »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #479
saeranv wrote: post #474

I sure hope all the HN commentators confidently predicting this would never happen because of his large donations to the democrats see this.

90% of them will never willingly admit they were wrong.

To be fair, 90% of all people won't admit they were wrong.

Sidenote, I think HN will be wrong on Elon Musk and X as well over the long term (personal opinion of course). But the way the discourse around X has changed on HN is incredible.

When Parag Agarwal was made CEO, everyone on HN complained about the platform and how a subscription model was the way to go. Now that Elon Musk has instated a subscription model, (seemingly) all on HN agrees he's running the company into the ground.

Seems to be happening a lot more often over the past 4 or 5 years.

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