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Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

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Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#481

Post by guidoism »

nevir wrote: post #67
Mistletoe wrote: post #36

From another article: "Between the lines: The shipping and logistics markets have turned south since the pandemic era's boomtimes." I think what you mean is this business makes no sense when interest rates aren't zero and investors aren't looking for places to stuff money. >The trucking marketplace gained a lot of buzz a few years ago, raising over $670 million from top investors like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Capital…

My navel-gazing take (as a very early Convoy person): It is really hard to get the kind of exponential efficiency gains in this space that a 'blitzscale'-focused startup needs in order to really succeed. Trucking is an industry that relies heavily on relationships (trucker broker, broker shipper, broker facility, etc), and you're not going to change that (required for true automation) without already being at an absu…

I honestly thought the original pitch had to do with self-driving trucks because in my mind how could it not.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#482

Post by yellow_postit »

stuaxo wrote: post #423
sangnoir wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they can do this, they can pay salaries another month If leadership decides to use the remaining funds on salaries rather than severance - then they should be judged on that! What good is buying one extra month for a doomed company? That month is more valuable to individual employees who can use it to look for new jobs

This is why you need laws. In other countries they would have to pay the salaries.

We have laws. There’s a trade off between more vibrant economies (easier to start, fail, start again) and more stagnant ones (harder to start but more safety nets).

There’s no perfect set point and the trade offs will always have downsides.

Given the risks of working for a company in the stage Convoy was in I’m not exactly sure this is a bad outcome.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#483

Post by bagels »

infrawhispers wrote: post #4

From a friend: Everyone was laid off with no severance or benefits. The CEO put all the blame on a lender in order to explain why there were no severance packages. This sucks because they took it upon themselves to offer staff retention bonuses earlier this year to keep people around after the earlier layoff.

Why would a lender lend them money to pay severance and shut down? Completely implausible explanation.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#484

Post by bagels »

nevir wrote: post #67
Mistletoe wrote: post #36

From another article: "Between the lines: The shipping and logistics markets have turned south since the pandemic era's boomtimes." I think what you mean is this business makes no sense when interest rates aren't zero and investors aren't looking for places to stuff money. >The trucking marketplace gained a lot of buzz a few years ago, raising over $670 million from top investors like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Capital…

My navel-gazing take (as a very early Convoy person): It is really hard to get the kind of exponential efficiency gains in this space that a 'blitzscale'-focused startup needs in order to really succeed. Trucking is an industry that relies heavily on relationships (trucker broker, broker shipper, broker facility, etc), and you're not going to change that (required for true automation) without already being at an absu…

Vertical integration is one way. I'm not saying it's easy or they would have succeeded, but it doesn't have to rely on so many other parties. Definitely would require tremendous scale.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#485

Post by cwilkes »

User23 wrote: post #430
revel wrote: post #412

There are some really profound misunderstandings of how bankruptcy and credit work in this thread. Creditors are ranked by seniority and get paid out in order by seniority. Equity is below every creditor and has been completely wiped out. Companies are not allowed to take cash or sell the furniture to pay out employees. That money is legally owed to creditors and attempting to stiff them is theft. I'm sorry to those…

Unless the law has changed, in California back pay is senior to everything except tax debt. And the company officers are personally liable for it. It should work that way everywhere. Executives need to be incentivized to do layoffs while there’s still cash for it. Defrauding employees is a terrible evil.

Slight twist on that here: most employees are in Seattle and WA state law doesn’t mandate paying out unused vacation time.

Most (good) employers do that when employees quit but they don’t have to.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#486

Post by [deleted] »

vidarh wrote: post #475
cma wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine if all the SWEs at all these VCs backed companies went on strike unless the laid off Convoy employees got six months of healthcare (it would have been in the initial employment contract). Congress made secondary strikes illegal a long time ago. Maybe it would still be OK since that wouldn't technically be cross-industry; I'm not sure.

There was a time when US unions striked despite being met by a risk of people getting outright murdered. Without hyperbole, the 8 hour working day was won with blood. The question needs to be whether you think a strike is right and morally justified, and worth the potential consequences, not whether it is legal.

[deleted]

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#487

Post by LastTrain »

revel wrote: post #412

There are some really profound misunderstandings of how bankruptcy and credit work in this thread. Creditors are ranked by seniority and get paid out in order by seniority. Equity is below every creditor and has been completely wiped out. Companies are not allowed to take cash or sell the furniture to pay out employees. That money is legally owed to creditors and attempting to stiff them is theft. I'm sorry to those…

Not paying employees for work already rendered is wage theft, which is actual theft.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#488

Post by eru »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #236
sangnoir wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they can do this, they can pay salaries another month If leadership decides to use the remaining funds on salaries rather than severance - then they should be judged on that! What good is buying one extra month for a doomed company? That month is more valuable to individual employees who can use it to look for new jobs

> What good is buying one extra month for a doomed company? You don't know it's doomed. Plenty of companies have turned around while running on fumes. This is fundamental to start-ups. > month is more valuable to individual employees who can use it to look for new jobs Everyone who lost their jobs at Convoy is eligible for unemployment. The same unemployment most workers get when they're fired. Perhaps the discussion…

> Everyone who lost their jobs at Convoy is eligible for unemployment. The same unemployment most workers get when they're fired. Perhaps the discussion should be around improving this benefit for everyone?

I think you can take out private unemployment insurance, if you are worried about that? (Or just have savings.)

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#489

Post by eru »

ditonal wrote: post #328
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's swell when people gamble with employees well-being on the miniscule odds of a miracle You don't know the odds ex ante ! Again, they would have been roundly criticized if they'd prioritized severance (which means more for the highly paid) and preferred stockholders over their rank-and-file common holders. > Unemployment benefits don't come anywhere close to tech salaries! They take time to process You're arguin…

So tired of companies that raise hundreds of millions from some of the wealthiest and most powerful people in the world trying to pull the “we’re a startup” card. You’re not two dudes eating ramen in a garage and you don’t get to use that image to excuse your shitty behavior. Also tired of the “other people in poverty are exploited even worse! You asking for basic labor protections shows your lack of empathy for them…

> The real solution is, and always will be, collective bargaining.

As long as I can opt-out of your collective bargaining (both as a worker and as a founder), I don't care what you bargain for.

Re: Trucking startup Convoy closes operations with no buyer

#490

Post by [deleted] »

andlarry wrote: post #134
hotpotamus wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, it's rather impressive the lengths the US will goto to avoid socialized/single-payer health plans (for anyone who isn't in the military or poor or over 65 at least). That sounds rather cockamamy to me.

Medicare: 65,748,297 people enrolled [0] Medicaid and CHIP: 85,614,581 people enrolled [1] Military: 9.5 million people covered [2] The US has not one but two of the largest single payer health insurance programs in the world. Medicare alone has more people enrolled than any European country's single payer programs other than Germany (pop 83,294,633) and the UK (pop 67,736,802). [0] https://medicareadvocacy.org/medic…

[deleted]
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