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Young people are flocking to astrology

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#481

Post by sillysaurusx »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #453
sillysaurusx wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All female software devs reading this just got extremely uncomfortable, and this comment chain no doubt brings up childhood body image issues — issues that men can’t know what it’s like. I point this out from the sidelines in case any thoughtful devs reading this might want to reflect on their behavior. It wasn’t till I married one that I started to reevaluate mine.

If an HN comment is how a female software dev learned that hot people are treated better, then this is the easiest way to learn that lesson and they should say thank you. But this “think of the women!” hall monitoring has to be worse than whatever violation against women you thought you read in this thread. Are you sure this imaginary audience of female software devs isn’t made uncomfortable by your sort of comment a…

Quite certain. The fact that you’d call them imaginary is simply … mistaken, to put it lightly.

I recommend asking some actual women how they feel about it. Feel free to link them to this subthread. But since you’re certain they’re imaginary, I imagine you’ve already done so and found it to be true, right?

This kind of attitude has no place in our industry, and it’ll be lovely when the social tides shift just a little bit more to filter it out. Imagine looking a black engineer straight in the eye and saying that it’s good they learned the lesson that people treat you differently based on your skin color, as if it’s a favor to them that we taught them that.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#482

Post by atlantic »

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303
nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

About a third of Newton's surviving manuscripts deal with physics. The rest deals with esoteric biblical exegesis and alchemy. Just another dumbo, I guess.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#483

Post by maxbond »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #286
maxbond wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many human experiences are better understood by means that are not scientific. Life is full of aesthetic, moral, spiritual, and even unanswerable questions. Science is incredible and beautiful and profound - but it's not everything. I can't remember what TV show I heard this on, but I like it; "the true sweetness of wine is... but one flavor." (ETA: The show was Marco Polo.)

This is essentially the kremlin propaganda defence. “It’s all so complicated! Nobody could really know the truth!” Come on.

If I were claiming that something which was knowable as a fact, wasn't, then sure.

If I'm claiming that like, tarot helped me develop a spiritual relationship with the world (this isn't the case for me personally), then no, that isn't propaganda.

I sure you can see a substantive difference in these claims.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#484

Post by johnnyworker »

hardlianotion wrote: post #418
varjag wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.

One of those world religions being the irrational belief in the power of science.

> It is not the greatest of modern scientists who feel most sure that the object, stripped of its qualitative properties and reduced to mere quantity, is wholly real. Little scientists, and little unscientific followers of science, may think so. The great minds know very well that the object, so treated, is an artificial abstraction, that something of its reality has been lost.

-- C.S. Lewis

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#485

Post by redandblack »

Clearly I am not young, but over the last say 5 years I have been visiting a specific astrologer and has been very useful - primarily for decision making, managing stress.

It is like therapy with dos/dont's and checks against any of your immediate worries. It basically helps you work out a near-term plan, typically 12-18 months, and helps to manage when things do not go your way.

In a abstract way, it fits to the fatalistic world view and that is why it works for people who use it, even if they do not fully accept. It really is therapy.

It is not everyone obviously

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#487

Post by adrian_b »

offices wrote: post #387
seer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the saying goes, “all models are wrong, some models are useful” While the astrology “model” is obviously wrong, it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity. Like the “flat earth model” is actually extremely useful if you don’t intend (can’t) travel significant distances - gives you a coordinate system, maps and ways to predict where you’re going to be tomorrow if you tra…

>it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity. How about blood types? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_personality_theory

When I was in high school, I have read in some magazine a variant of this "blood type personality theory".

To my amazement, that theory matched extremely well the personalities of all my colleagues from high school and of a few other friends and relatives, whose blood type I knew, unlike the predictions of personality based on astrology, which did not seem to match the known people more often than by random chance.

I have no idea which was the origin of that variant of the "blood type personality theory", but it was something very different from what is described in the Wikipedia article.

For instance people with type B blood were not classified as "spontaneous and creative" as in the Wikipedia page, but IIRC, as people who become mature in thinking at a lower age than the others, who are better at independent work, who may be stubborn and less influenceable by the opinions of others, who may be more trustworthy, but more introverted, and who may be inclined to careers in technical domains or in scientific research, or to military careers.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#488

Post by machina_ex_deus »

varjag wrote: post #398
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me there is an a huge difference. I can accept religions, which are adding axioms that aren't falsifiable, and that are usually taught to a person when he is a child. And religions had their roles in shaping society for good. I can accept conspiracy theories and disbelieving the known consensus. I just can't accept a person who, in the age where we know exactly how planets move and what they are, decided to believ…

I feel it's more of a personal background issue. Do you really have objection with planets effects on personality but at the same time feel turning water into wine is plausible in the slightest? To a raised atheist all religions are not far removed from belief in Santa Claus. But to someone with religious people in the family cutting them off may come not as natural as of strangers with astrology brain.

Magicians can do what looks like turning water into wine easily. Is that seriously your biggest issue with religion? If there's anything to be really skeptical about its that a person resurrected from the dead, rest of the miracles are pretty mundane in modern standards. And the way I understand their epistemology, they know it happened because people saw him both dying and living afterwards, so it boils down to whether you believe their accounts. I don't expect more evidence to that than witnesses, but then again, it's hard to believe when the only evidence is witnesses.

Either way, I don't see a huge epistemological problem with a person believing these things. They might be believing wrong things but at least they do it for reasonable reasons.

You need to distinguish between epistemology and logic. It's much more important to get your epistemology correctly than your logic. It's ok to be wrong with your reasoning, you can still have an intelligent discussion. But talking to a person without epistemology is like talking to the wall. You're playing chess and he's playing checkers.

If the other person doesn't epistemologically need cause and effect relationships to believe in something, and it doesn't matter to him, I can't have an intelligent discussion. I can't reason without cause and effect, and if it doesn't matter to the other person it's completely hopeless.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#489

Post by kybernetikos »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #446
hashtag-til wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking if I should mode from my soulless job in ML to a soulless job in finance.

Just wanted to chime in and say that your “soulless job in ML” comment is relatable, and your experience isn’t unique. I had one too. I saved up a lot of money from it, but by the end it nearly cost me my remaining passion. A soulless job in finance is better if you like(d) ML at all, because then you can keep your interests separate from your job.

> A soulless job in finance is better if you like(d) ML at all, because then you can keep your interests separate from your job.

I did read somewhere that for someone trying to write a book in their spare time, a job in editing is the worst possible thing to have for a similar reason.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#490

Post by maxbond »

YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #205
maxbond wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many human experiences are better understood by means that are not scientific. Life is full of aesthetic, moral, spiritual, and even unanswerable questions. Science is incredible and beautiful and profound - but it's not everything. I can't remember what TV show I heard this on, but I like it; "the true sweetness of wine is... but one flavor." (ETA: The show was Marco Polo.)

How do you know that you're actually "understanding" these experiences and not just making up whatever confirms your preconceptions?

I don't mean to be factitious, but I'm gunnuh answer your question with a question.

How do you know someone loves you?

Because everyone I've ever met has been convinced certain people love them or don't, it's tremendously meaningful to their lives, and none of them used science to do it.

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