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FedNow Is Live

federalreserve.gov

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#481

Post by Frummy »

Ao7bei3s wrote: post #348
HoyaSaxa wrote: post #298

For those curious, it is really using IBM MQ[1] under the hood and uses a bespoke flavor of the ISO 20022 specification. The FedNow Service itself is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what actually happens from an end-to-end perspective. We've been working to become a Certified Service Provider so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to share anything that is not under NDA. [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/mq

What does a development environment look like, both architecturally and simply visually? Like: Do developers spin up entire fake economies with two banks and the fed on their latop, or is it all incremental changes to individual microservices in a big permanent test setup? Do other banks / service providers / the fed run test instances of their systems with fake money for other companies to do interop with, like a "g…

In front of your eyes: TSO-ISPF for everything. IDz for the 5 seconds per month that code is actually written

Test env: Separate permanent envs. From playground where nothing matters, env with some fake data in similar databases and variants of all systems, to mirror of prod with anonymised data, then prod

There are dummy online banking web interfaces

What sets it apart is that the operating system is painful to use and never stops being painful to use. And your employer is paranoid and keeps you in a digital prison for security so very few permissions so there is no creativity or off-road improvisational innovation just assemblyline style development

Re: FedNow Is Live

#482

Post by HoyaSaxa »

aidenn0 wrote: post #436
HoyaSaxa wrote: post #298

For those curious, it is really using IBM MQ[1] under the hood and uses a bespoke flavor of the ISO 20022 specification. The FedNow Service itself is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what actually happens from an end-to-end perspective. We've been working to become a Certified Service Provider so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to share anything that is not under NDA. [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/mq

Is the eventual end-game that I can send money from my account at Bank A, to a friend's account at Bank B to split a check at dinner without using a third party like Venmo?

Yes, that is absolutely a use case. Similar to Venmo, there is also a Request for Payment (RFP) mechanism. I'm on the Request for Payment (RFP) Work Group that is composed of a number of financial institutions, service providers, and billers.

Netflix is part of the RFP Work Group. So presumably they are interested in offering consumers the ability to pay for Netflix using FedNow instead of a credit card. Instead of Netflix paying ~$0.50 in credit card processing fees per U.S. subscription they'll probably be able to find a bank willing to charge them < $0.25. It also gives consumers more control as they have to authorize each charge.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#483

Post by ksec »

2143 wrote: post #179

Funny thing about topics like this is that people of any given country is oblivious to how other countries have solved that problem, or the challenges other countries face, or inturn the problems that they themselves face. Regarding payment systems specifically, people generally don't realize what they're missing. Pick anybody from anywhere and they'll tell you they've been able to do everything they ever wanted to d…

Which is basically why all the De-Fi, Web 3.0, Cyrpto nonsense are very much US centric.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#484

Post by rkagerer »

ke88y wrote: post #433
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would any of it be under an NDA?

At the very least, one would hope that credentials and perhaps also certain design documents such as threat models aren't public. There may also be implementation details or code which are subject to NDA, either from the Fed itself or from service providers such as IBM in this case. Sometimes you can get that info from a FOIA request, but that doesn't negate the fact that the employees working on the system are bound…

certain design documents such as threat models aren't public

That smells like security through obscurity (which admittedly is the status quo in the banking world).

Contrasted to approaches like Bitcoin, for which full code and whitepaper are public, and which has managed to survive every attack vector thrown at it for the last decade and a half. Not arguing for Bitcoin as money here, just highlighting the diverse approaches to security and that it shouldn't be taken as a given that hiding those details makes it more secure.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#485

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

efnx wrote: post #296

Here in NZ you can do this with your bank. Just enter the person’s acct number and the amount to send in online banking.

The working assumption (on the part of the US Federal Reserve) is that eventually all/most US banks will use FedNow and offer it to their customers (probably via mobile/online front-ends developed and sold by B2B third parties).

We'll see if that actually happens.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#486

Post by aeyes »

HoyaSaxa wrote: post #298

For those curious, it is really using IBM MQ[1] under the hood and uses a bespoke flavor of the ISO 20022 specification. The FedNow Service itself is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what actually happens from an end-to-end perspective. We've been working to become a Certified Service Provider so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to share anything that is not under NDA. [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/mq

Is there anything special about the IBM MQ implementation which makes it worth naming them? It looks like you can connect to it using AMQP so I wonder why they wouldn't just say something generic like "MQ" or "AMQP protocol".

Re: FedNow Is Live

#487

Post by danielmarkbruce »

atentaten wrote: post #442
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FedNow isn't a big issue. CBDC really isn't a big issue either, because it almost certainly won't happen. Americans are very unlikely to want a system like that.

Americans didn't want a central bank, but look at where we are. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...

The "central bank" americans fought hard against in the first place didn't have the same function as the modern central bank started last century.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#488

Post by civilitty »

mavili wrote: post #301
no_wizard wrote: post #96

Is there going to be a universal SDK / API we can use with this? This would cut alot of middle companies out of the payments industry (or at least put pressure on lowering fees). That would be a huge win. Wish we could do the same for the credit card companies. Would be great if the Federal Government could intervene in some way to have Visa / Mastercard / American Express / Discover use the same API interface for pa…

> This would cut alot of middle companies out of the payments industry Not really. All it will do is let the same companies change the way they handle average citizens' payments. It's the same as Open Banking in Europe. It is supposed allow small businesses to leverage this to enable innovation and all that stuff, but when you want to use these APIs you find there are limitations on who can actually use it. For examp…

50k is small peanuts, even for a friends and family round. I’d expect any startup dealing with banking transactions on my or my businesses’s behalf to have at least that much in a bond or escrowed away for counterparty risk.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#489

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

karaterobot wrote: post #132

> “The FedNow Service is neither a form of currency nor a step toward eliminating any form of payment, including cash.” What people are accusing them of is taking steps toward creating a digital dollar. This is their response, which is pretty mealy-mouthed if it's meant to address those accusations. A better way to express a denial would be "the Federal Reserve has no intention of creating a digital dollar and is not…

Consider "We have every intent of creating a digital dollar and are actively planning and working on that project BUT FedNow has NOTHING to do with that project".

Re: FedNow Is Live

#490

Post by ke88y »

rkagerer wrote: post #484
ke88y wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least, one would hope that credentials and perhaps also certain design documents such as threat models aren't public. There may also be implementation details or code which are subject to NDA, either from the Fed itself or from service providers such as IBM in this case. Sometimes you can get that info from a FOIA request, but that doesn't negate the fact that the employees working on the system are bound…

certain design documents such as threat models aren't public That smells like security through obscurity (which admittedly is the status quo in the banking world). Contrasted to approaches like Bitcoin, for which full code and whitepaper are public, and which has managed to survive every attack vector thrown at it for the last decade and a half. Not arguing for Bitcoin as money here, just highlighting the diverse app…

LOL what? Keeping private keys private is not "security through obscurity". Or if it is then basically all security is security through obscurity.

No one is posting their private keys on github, and when they do their crypto goes poof nearly instantly. None of the exchanges publish their threat model documents. I sure as shit don't tell people where I store my private keys.

The bitcoin whitepaper and code are more analogous to the ISO standard, which is public.

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