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Why I Left Rust

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Re: Why I Left Rust

#481

Post by lost_tourist »

Roark66 wrote: post #294

I was with you until this part: >It was JeanHeyd who called Rust out for having no Black representation among Rust conference speakers. Rightly so, as both the Rust organization and the conferences had little to no Black representation. Am I the only one that considers such arbitrary "diversity enforcement policy" horribly racist? No organisation should be "called out for a lack of - insert-race-here- representation…

I don't think it's racist, but I do think it's tunnel vision and not taking into context in the greater context of society. There is obviously and undeniably a paucity of black people in STEM. So yeah, I think that having someone get a +1 for being a POC in a group of several +1's in choosing something like a keynote speaker. It's a chicken-and-egg problem in STEM. It should never be the sole determination, but if you're down to keynote speaker of basically identically talented keynotes, then being a non-white person can be that +1 to make a decision. Fairness does not always equate to exactly the same treatment

Re: Why I Left Rust

#482

Post by gameman144 »

KerrAvon wrote: post #464
lyu07282 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought "rust culture" came out of this sort of super SJW/woke culture of mozilla? Nothing against that sort of mindset in theory, but it sometimes leads to a certain irrational hypersensitive intolerant mob behavior and authoritarian/anti democratic tendencies. There was also the recent easily preventable drama [1] around the trademark guidelines some people left rust over. I don't really find any of this drama co…

“SJW/woke” as an epithet is a right wing trope. Can we not do this please?

It's also a relatively apt description of a small subset of left-wing groups. My assumption is that the parent comment is explicitly referring to this small subset.

Similarly "white supremacist" is often used as an insult on the inverse side, even for groups that don't believe in or desire white dominance. If someone actually does believe in those things, though, it's still a totally fine term to describe them.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#483

Post by Georgelemental »

ericyd wrote: post #408
chillbill wrote: post #79

I haven't seen anyone bring this up, so I will. I read through the original blog post from JeanHeyd[1] and in no way do they mention anything related to being a person of color, why then does JT associate it with that? I have no idea about the inner workings of the rust leadership team and who they are even, but from the timeline described and from the original post, there's nothing the could be related to that. Jean…

> "a person of color" (as if white is not a color, but whatever) You might want to look into the historical basis for this term before you make snarky comments about it. It comes across as dismissive. My understanding is the term "person of color" evolved from "colored" (which originally just meant black (in America at least)) and now encompasses non-white people.

"Colored" is now considered offensive by most, so why isn't "person of color" also viewed the same way? Both terms describe the same opressive system of nonsense racial hierarchy, after all.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#484

Post by xyzzyz »

fatneckbeard wrote: post #406
lyu07282 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought "rust culture" came out of this sort of super SJW/woke culture of mozilla? Nothing against that sort of mindset in theory, but it sometimes leads to a certain irrational hypersensitive intolerant mob behavior and authoritarian/anti democratic tendencies. There was also the recent easily preventable drama [1] around the trademark guidelines some people left rust over. I don't really find any of this drama co…

Yeah I worry about this. There was no "C leadership", it was simple enough that dozens of people created their own compilers within a few years of C existing. this was back before the internet. they had companies sprouting up like Borland just making C compilers for personal home computers. C just ... spread. All these kids learning Arduino in school, they are learning C. There basically is no other usable compiler t…

Rust is winning market from C and C++ precisely because of strong technical leadership and direction. It couldn’t have made much progress by taking similar hands off approach as C, because C is already more than good enough C.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#485

Post by pdimitar »

epistasis wrote: post #470
neonsunset wrote: post #29

I love Rust but the ideological posturing and swathes of people who in their hearts are grifters is truly disappointing. Framing a technical presentation you disagree with as "making you uncomfortable" in highly manipulative fashion definitely deserves to be called out in public.

I really love Rust, and I'm very encouraged to see this "ideological posturing" happening in public. There is a wide wide world out there, and just as having an easy to use crate system is important, so is having a large community. You don't get to a large community by being exclusive, but by being inclusive.

Who was being exclusive, exactly? And how?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#486

Post by bluejekyll »

fatneckbeard wrote: post #406
lyu07282 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought "rust culture" came out of this sort of super SJW/woke culture of mozilla? Nothing against that sort of mindset in theory, but it sometimes leads to a certain irrational hypersensitive intolerant mob behavior and authoritarian/anti democratic tendencies. There was also the recent easily preventable drama [1] around the trademark guidelines some people left rust over. I don't really find any of this drama co…

Yeah I worry about this. There was no "C leadership", it was simple enough that dozens of people created their own compilers within a few years of C existing. this was back before the internet. they had companies sprouting up like Borland just making C compilers for personal home computers. C just ... spread. All these kids learning Arduino in school, they are learning C. There basically is no other usable compiler t…

Wouldn’t you consider the C standards committee as the leadership of C?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#488

Post by lost_tourist »

Blackstrat wrote: post #309

The world has become a sad and pathetic place. If you're "uncomfortable", whatever that means, don't watch, whether we're talking about a speech, a TV program, etc. Don't try to ruin it for everyone else. You're just not that important. Life is filled with discomfort. You can't cancel them all. And as you get older, the discomforts keep coming. That's the real world. And when you retire and the doctors tell you that…

The world has always been a sad and pathetic place, it just shifts over time on what people consider that to be. It's also a joyous and wondrous place if you let it be. Humans have been caught in the same for loop since we became conscious and capable of higher order thinking. The amount of enlightenment has been waxing and waning over time but with an upward trend line since that point in time.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#489

Post by dagmx »

Roark66 wrote: post #294

I was with you until this part: >It was JeanHeyd who called Rust out for having no Black representation among Rust conference speakers. Rightly so, as both the Rust organization and the conferences had little to no Black representation. Am I the only one that considers such arbitrary "diversity enforcement policy" horribly racist? No organisation should be "called out for a lack of - insert-race-here- representation…

[flagged]

Re: Why I Left Rust

#490

Post by azangru »

junon wrote: post #77

Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…

> And then they pushed them out of the conference behind leadership's back?

If I understand the story correctly, they downgraded the talk from a keynote to a regular talk. Which — if, like you say, was about purely technical thing that was pretty widely disliked conceptually — maybe shouldn't have been a keynote in the first place?

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