Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump • Hacker News Board

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#481

Post by MichaelDickens » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:31 AM UTC

otterley wrote: post #460

WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just need a mental gut check after reading this comment. Do people not think this is political?

In a sense, any prosecution of a political figure can be considered political. But what's the alternative? Treating political figures as immune from criminal prosecution? What would that mean for the rule of law? And what would that mean for our expectations of our leadership -- who, if anything, should be held to a higher standard as model actors for our society and our children?

The alternative would be for prosecutors to focus their attention proportionally to `severity of crime * prior probability of guilt`. In an ideal world, you'd see Democratic prosecutors going after Democrats and Republicans going after Republicans just as often as the opposite. But I have no clue how to get from our current world to that world.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#482

Post by shagie » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:31 AM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #443

shagie wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quoted the relevant section in another comment ( https://youtu.be/AAZLOygmR78 ). (late edit - it was https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35381723 - not the YouTube link) The statue of limitations in New York doesn't accumulate when the defendant is outside of the state. I would be sure to make note of who is suggesting that legal approach. The full opinions of the court in that case can be found https://www.suprem…

> I quoted the relevant section in another comment ( https://youtu.be/AAZLOygmR78 ). Your link is wrong, but now I probably know what you watch on youtube. > I would be sure to make note of who is suggesting that legal approach. The full opinions of the court in that case can be found https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19-635_o7jq.pdf Please make note of it for me, because I don't want to read a 68 page lega…

I was mistaken on the link - my comment was https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35381723 (alas, lazy clipboarding and not double checking)

Page 18 of ALITO, J., dissenting. It is on page 82 of the pdf overall.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#483

Post by operatingthetan » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:33 AM UTC

laidoffamazon wrote: post #454

uptownfunk wrote: post #380

Banks collapse. Weakening of the dollar. Former American president indicted. Plots to pause and inhibit AI technologies development through petition. Never ending rain and gloom on the west coast. School shootings. I am not one for conspiracy but it really does not seem like the tides are moving in the United States favor right now. Why does every day feel like we are getting closer to some kind of tipping point? Int…

It’s because you’re ignorant of history. If anything we are closer to morning in America than anytime since 2000. No new wars, massive advancements in hard tech and AI, and the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years. The new American century is being built as we speak by the most brilliant and hardworking humans on the planet, I suggest you not overlook it.

Refreshing optimism, thank you.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#484

Post by sashank_1509 » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:34 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #462

sashank_1509 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> A lesser known book that is far more scholarly and worth of your time is “Liberty’s nemesis: The unchecked expansion of your state” by John Yoo and Dean Reuter. I also do like the more polemical “ Faithless Execution: Building the Political Case for Obama s Impeachment” by Andrew MC Carthy If I had to name the scandals, there’s 1. IRS Scandal that’s so well I prefer politico-legal advocacy books where fewer than ha…

What are you on about, who’s a war criminal, genuinely curious?

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#485

Post by skellington » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:35 AM UTC

WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #186

mbgerring wrote: post #55

Nearly the entire point of the United States at its founding was that the law should apply to political leaders. We are overdue for setting the precedent of a former President being charged with a crime, and we ought to go back and charge a few other former Presidents with crimes while we’re at it.

Just need a mental gut check after reading this comment. Do people not think this is political?

In the sense that they are trying to get him for things that they would never even consider charging a Democrat for, yes.

That doesn't mean he did or did not do something illegal. The difference is Hillary/etc. can't be prosecuted for anything.

How many campaign finance skeletons do you think most of the big politicians have in their closets that will never be investigated much less prosecuted?

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#486

Post by ahoya » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:35 AM UTC

while i’m not a fan of donald trump, it is chilling to realize that this could happen to any one of us after using campaign funds to make hush money payments to pornstars

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#487

Post by skellington » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:35 AM UTC

guelo wrote: post #466

stuckinhell wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to Trump, people seem to be blind to the effects of soft power. Trump is beloved by his base in a way no other president in the last 100 years is. The danger of this half-assed prosecution to the republic is fucking enormous, I'm actually scared.

What about the rule of law? Isn't it important? Isn't it possible that Trump committed a crime and should be prosecuted?

[flagged]

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#488

Post by claytongulick » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:35 AM UTC

jshen wrote: post #422

stuckinhell wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Trump has nearly religious following that scares many many people on the left and right. They will do ANYTHING to stop him out of fear, anger, arrogance etc. The problem here is Trump is an expert at reflection. This HAS ALREADY empowered his base, and strengthened Ron Desantis. I think the hardest part to accept is nearly half the nation DOES NOT AGREE with progressive principles at their very core.

The democratic nominee for President has won the popular vote in something like 7 of the last 8 presidential elections. A majority of Americans do have progressive principles, but America is a minority rule country at the moment.

When you consider population clusters in the big urban areas, your point is diluted a bit.

There's a reason we don't do popular vote; California and New York would pretty much pick the president every election.

Take a look at the geographic distribution of red v blue by county in the 2020 presidential election [1].

Relying on only the popular vote could devolve the country into a hunger games type dystopian hellscape where 90% of the country is controlled by a few dense urban clusters.

[1] https://brilliantmaps.com/2020-county-election-map/

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#489

Post by googlerx » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:36 AM UTC

dmix wrote: post #249

fsckboy wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nearly the entire point of the United States at its founding was that the law should apply to political leaders. I think that's overstated. First of all, it was the Magna Carta which established that the king was not above the law, so in that sense the founding of the United States was more "and we don't need a king". Second, there are frequently legal discussions in the present day as to whether a sitting presiden…

This also happened before he was a sitting president, so all the stuff about “Bush Iraq war crimes” and “Nixon’s burglary” and similar historical presidential baggage is mostly irrelevant, at least in terms of new precedent. The social/civil consequences of this sort of criminal indictment before election is enough to kill a presidential campaign and has enough times in history. As it should be. This is behaviour bef…

At least some of the legally problematic reimbursement payments to Cohen happened while he was president.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#490

Post by zarzavat » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 5:36 AM UTC

another_story wrote: post #399

zarzavat wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. Should Joe Biden be prosecuted for negligently storing classified documents in his home? Every person in the US is guilty of some baseline level of criminality, and the more “interesting” your life, the more crimes you are likely to have committed. If the US wants to have non-criminal presidents then it should reform its vast state and federal criminal codes so that su…

Yes, if you commit a crime, petty or not, rich or poor, you should face a court. If you park in front of a fire hydrant, whether you're a mom picking up her kid or the president, you should get a ticket. If there is no attempt at equality in the face of the law, then what's the point?

The US already has one of the largest imprisoned populations in the world, per capita. If the problem is unfairness and inequality (which I completely agree are serious problems), the solution is not to imprison even more people, but just richer people for white collar crimes to “balance things out”.

No, the solution is to imprison fewer people from disadvantaged classes. Imprisoning Trump does little to help all the people in prison for dubious reasons.

The logical conclusion of a policy of investigating and punishing all violations of all the laws currently on the books, is that almost everybody in America should be criminalized. That is not what a well functioning criminal justice system looks like.