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Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

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Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#481

Post by BenFranklin100 »

softsound wrote: post #364

Looking at other countries like Japan with like barely any zoning laws, this looks great, I hope it leads to more mixed cities again and more walkable/liveable areas like before WW2. It is funny that America land of the free had so many restrictions, building up hundreds of zoning laws across the country did a lot of bad and led to a lot of urban sprawl leading to very poor cities and towns that literally cannot pay…

Tokyo is not a free-for-all. It does zone for different uses by forbidding certain uses above a certain nuisance or hazard level. For instance, in many areas you can’t just plop down a chemical factory. The cool thing about Tokyo zoning though is that anything below a nuisance level is pretty much allowed. Want to build a house next to a dump or above a discotheque? Go for it, no one is going to stop you.

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#482

Post by jimnotgym »

webkike wrote: post #435
nostromo123 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, f*k other people, let's cram as many souls as we can in affordable dystopian high rises... that's the spirit!

High rises are not dystopian. What is dystopian is people living in fucking tents

...or indeed urban sprawl itself...

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#483

Post by opportune »

nostromo123 wrote: post #394
xwdv wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. Fuck your neighbors. The region is long overdue for more housing to fix the ridiculous situation that has formed down there. Hopefully the region will become more affordable as new housing floods the area and brings down prices and makes things generally more affordable.

Yeah, f*k other people, let's cram as many souls as we can in affordable dystopian high rises... that's the spirit!

As opposed to now where we cram those people into SFH with many roommates?

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#484

Post by ericmay »

arrosenberg wrote: post #306
ericmay wrote: post #212

I loathe the suburbs and car-only infrastructure. It's backwards, bone-headed, and downright treacherously stupid. In addition to zoning reform we should nationally remove mandatory parking minimums. Hell, if anything we should de-zone strip malls and any new development that practically requires a car to get to (implementation details fuzzy). But I do have sympathy for people who move to a location or community for…

> There is real harm done, and it is anti-democratic in some ways to take state or national laws and have those supercede (micromanage in this case) local building rules or regulations. You could just as easily argue it's pro-democratic because it lets the State break the power of the local, petty gentry to keep people from moving in.

I'm not concerned about "petty gentry" or whatever silly class warfare terms people use. It's not only boring but harms progress by pitting people against each other.

You can of course argue that things are or are not democratic. That's part of my point. Overriding local, more direct democracy (in theory) could be anti-democratic in my view. But doing something like having highly restrictive zoning laws such that you keep certain people out seems probably anti-democratic at best and prejudice almost certainly.

But you can make cases for both. For every "We don't like the zoning because it keeps the place expensive" there's "we don't care what the residents want this toxic waste dump has to go somewhere.

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#485

Post by parkaboy »

softsound wrote: post #364

Looking at other countries like Japan with like barely any zoning laws, this looks great, I hope it leads to more mixed cities again and more walkable/liveable areas like before WW2. It is funny that America land of the free had so many restrictions, building up hundreds of zoning laws across the country did a lot of bad and led to a lot of urban sprawl leading to very poor cities and towns that literally cannot pay…

As yet anothor note in this thread about Houston (from a long-time Houstonian) and less in direct response to OP -- the lack of zoning bit is actually a bit more complicated than at first glance. While it's true there is no zoning, there are two other forces at work that exacerbate the sprawl issues here:

(1) Minimum parking lot size requirements (as others mentioned). Commercial properties are required to have X amount of parking spaces available.

(2) Political issues and how money gets invested: despite public "protests" (maybe more like "kvetching"), there's continued investment in freeway expansion / car-centric infrastructure due to lobbying/other political efforts instead of public transportation.

Our sprawl is more due to (1) and (2) rather than lack of zoning regulation.

But also to Houston's credit, things are slowly (SLOWLY) getting better.

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#486

Post by rockinghigh »

sgt wrote: post #414

"San Francisco’s Sunset District will be upzoned for new, high density housing to help add 80,000 new homes via the housing element approved by SF city gov’t and the state." I don't understand that statement along with the photo. That is a high density neighborhood. The houses are very close to each other, many are double story, and I don't see many green areas in between. Did I miss something?

The new zoning would allow buildings up to 85 feet, or ~10 stories.

> Areas within a short walk of a rapid bus or light rail line — including stretches of Ocean Avenue, Geary Boulevard and Taraval, Judah and Lombard streets — could see developments 55 to 85 feet high. In other areas close to major bus lines, developers would be allowed to build unlimited density within existing height limits. Virtually everywhere else on the west side, up to four units would be allowed on every lot.

https://www.sfexaminer.com/archives/how-will-san-francisco-s...

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#487

Post by bilbo0s »

shuckles wrote: post #407
LynxInLA wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an expert, but I lean towards relaxing zoning laws but not getting rid of them completely. Look to Houston to see what happens when there are no zoning laws at all.

There are a myriad of ways Houston does control land use beyond zoning such as minimum parking requirements and private covenants.

Yeah.

In Houston, we have what is effectively zoning. It's just that we do it at the neighborhood level. You want to go into the museum district or third ward and develop x, or y, or z? No problem. So long as the neighbors agree with you.

Hint: Once they gentrify to the point of being called "The Museum District", they will definitely not be agreeing with you.

I saw someone above throw out a figure of 3 or 4 hundred k as a price point and I had to chuckle. If all you want to do is build a low-rise for workforce housing? Yeah, this neighborhood wouldn't care if you had the money or not. Piss off peasant. The people in the Museum District no longer wish to reside in proximity with your kind. Some neighborhood get togethers you almost get the impression that people would like to put gates to the city at all the 610 exits. Keep the riff raff out. And don't even get me started about what I hear from friends behind the gates down Sunset.

In Houston, the zoning is way worse than in other cities. Because people can literally stop anyone they want. No city council permission necessary.

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#488

Post by bad_good_guy »

cal5k wrote: post #433
LynxInLA wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an expert, but I lean towards relaxing zoning laws but not getting rid of them completely. Look to Houston to see what happens when there are no zoning laws at all.

Median sale price in Houston is currently $310,500, vs $441,250 in Sacramento, $917,500 in LA and $1.3MM in SF. Aesthetic judgments aside, seems like a winning strategy for housing affordability?

California has a population density of 249.1 people per sq mile compared to 103.2 people per sq mile in Texas. Seems an obviously more important factor here.

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#489

Post by mancerayder »

xwdv wrote: post #368
jedberg wrote: post #127

There is a developer in Cupertino who has been fighting with the city for years, who got awfully quiet lately. Now I know why. I suspect they have a plan for an absolutely massive high rise behind my house that they will be submitting at 8am tomorrow morning. My neighbors are going to be pissed .

Good. Fuck your neighbors. The region is long overdue for more housing to fix the ridiculous situation that has formed down there. Hopefully the region will become more affordable as new housing floods the area and brings down prices and makes things generally more affordable.

High rises are for people who aren't light sleepers, don't mind hearing music and noise in adjacent walls or above or below, are tolerant of parties and generally sociable.

Guess who fits that demographic? Young single people and young couples who go out. The average middle age crank needs a house without shared walls and space.

There are individual preferences at play here. No one chooses a high rise, it's just more affordable. The exception is amenities, doormen, other services.

Re: Builder's Remedy goes into effect in many California cities tomorrow

#490

Post by jedberg »

jldugger wrote: post #427
jedberg wrote: post #127

There is a developer in Cupertino who has been fighting with the city for years, who got awfully quiet lately. Now I know why. I suspect they have a plan for an absolutely massive high rise behind my house that they will be submitting at 8am tomorrow morning. My neighbors are going to be pissed .

Interest rates are super high right now, so you might get some reprieve in the short term. They'll probably slow play Vallco until rates come down, doing just enough to keep their zoning exemption?

I think they only have to file for the permit, not sure how long they can wait to build. But they probably already had the financing locked up?

You're right though, I'm sure they'll do as little as they can to get their project approved and stay approved while waiting for cheaper money.

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