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“My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

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Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#481

Post by ElfinTrousers »

pydry wrote: post #445
pyuser583 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figured he’s a guy who works in the national security sector and didn’t want his extra curricular work drawing attention to himself. If he had to pass occasional polygraphs, it could create some weird situations. And if he signed a contract giving all intellectual output to his employer (including side projects), he could find himself in a lawsuit.

If polygraphs worked that is.

Oh, they work. They're not for detecting lies, which as you are apparently aware they can't. But they're great at intimidating people into confessing and that's why the authorities use them.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#482

Post by bbbbb5 »

dannyw wrote: post #477
bbbbb5 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inclined to agree here. Luke is going on about Intel ME backdoors on Twitter, but in reality there will be a far less crazy explanation for how he got owned.

In reality a $55 per month colo provider with a history of security incidents is not a reasonable choice for a high security application.

You can easily protect your hardware from all but the most determined adversaries with extensive physical access. Epoxy in ports, case intrusion detection and locked down boot chain. Use TPM2-totp for verified boot.

Your colo provider can be thoroughly owned, your adversaries can have physical access to the server for extended periods of time and still not be able to do anything because you've denied them access to any ports that'd allow DMA.

Lots of cheap DIY options for fancy case intrusion detection going way beyond that offered by mfgs. USB camera and some tape?

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#484

Post by adql »

ec59cb1659 wrote: post #392
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re saying that to use crypto properly, I have to secure a physical object that grants irrevocable ownership of my wealth? That sounds bad. Is there a way I can get my crypto held my an institution with SIPC insurance, the way I hold stocks at a brokerage, so I can outsource this issue to someone else who is backed by a government guarantee? (I obviously don’t expect them to guarantee the value of the crypto, j…

It's not about money, it's about power. If you hold a physical item, you have the maximum power over it as possible. If you want to entrust someone else with it, go ahead, but at the end of the day your access to the item will be subject to their whims and those of the greater political establishment / woke clergy / corrupt and powerful.

You're not holding anything in your wallet. It's just fancy login systen to a transaction system that is bitcoin.

It's no different from bank login in the end, once someone has it, it can be transferred at will.

Sure, the difference is that in banking system bank doesn't need your credentials to do stuff with money but even that when big crypto bois money are involved stops being immutable as DAO ethereum fork proves, fuck with important people money and nothing is sacred.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#485

Post by adql »

ebiester wrote: post #401
ec59cb1659 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about money, it's about power. If you hold a physical item, you have the maximum power over it as possible. If you want to entrust someone else with it, go ahead, but at the end of the day your access to the item will be subject to their whims and those of the greater political establishment / woke clergy / corrupt and powerful.

And if you entrust it to a safe deposit box, then... ? And if you trust it to a safe in your bedroom, and your house burns down, then... ? Which is more likely?

Well, both of them are less likely to lose your money than bitcoin apparently.

Especially if you stored solid brick of gold instead of money

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#486

Post by danaris »

bbbbb5 wrote: post #399
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When this stuff happens, you can engage in a legal process that has the power to get your property back. The process to recover from this can be slow and difficult. I acknowledge that this is a failure of the institutions involved, which can and should be fixed. However, the existence of these avenues for recovery acts as a strong deterrent that limits the frequency of such crimes. That’s why I am slightly worried ab…

The same legal processes that can be used to recover funds stolen from your bank account or stocks stolen from your brokerage account can be used to recover cryptocurrency. >When your crypto is stolen, the theft cannot be reversed, by design. If someone sends you a phishing link, gets your info, logs into your online banking and sends all of your money overseas, that theft generally can't be reversed either. (You'll…

> The same legal processes that can be used to recover funds stolen from your bank account or stocks stolen from your brokerage account can be used to recover cryptocurrency.

If that is the case, then doesn't that destroy (at least) one of the basic principles of cryptocurrency that people constantly harp on?

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#487

Post by danaris »

gruez wrote: post #337
pornel wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin core developer is the nuttiest of bitcoin users? The whole point is that he should be the one of most knowledgeable exemplary users.

>Bitcoin core developer is the nuttiest of bitcoin users? In this case you can substitute "nuttiest" with "most lazy". >The whole point is that he should be the one of most knowledgeable exemplary users. In this case it wasn't because of lack of knowledge, it was something else (eg. laziness/apathy/cockiness). Kind of like how most people know that they should eat less and exercise more, but don't.

When a core aspect of a security system requires ignoring or fundamentally changing human nature, you have an irreparably broken security system.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#488

Post by adql »

bbbbb5 wrote: post #399
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When this stuff happens, you can engage in a legal process that has the power to get your property back. The process to recover from this can be slow and difficult. I acknowledge that this is a failure of the institutions involved, which can and should be fixed. However, the existence of these avenues for recovery acts as a strong deterrent that limits the frequency of such crimes. That’s why I am slightly worried ab…

The same legal processes that can be used to recover funds stolen from your bank account or stocks stolen from your brokerage account can be used to recover cryptocurrency. >When your crypto is stolen, the theft cannot be reversed, by design. If someone sends you a phishing link, gets your info, logs into your online banking and sends all of your money overseas, that theft generally can't be reversed either. (You'll…

But vast majority of banks will call you and go "yo, wtf", some even outright lock your account (with many false positives but still) from doing so.

There is zero chance that will happen for bitcoin.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#489

Post by adql »

bbbbb5 wrote: post #327
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, that's how most things work in the physical world. If you want to secure a widget, then you need to "secure a physical object that grants irrevocable ownership" of it. You can’t steal my house by obtaining the deed. You can’t steal my stock by obtaining the stock certificates. That’s not how it works. The vast majority of wealth in developed countries doesn’t rely on physical security to maintain ownership. W…

You can definitely steal houses though. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-59069662 https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2008/march/ho... https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/she-had-n... You can also steal stocks. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/us-charges-ha... > The vast majority of wealth in developed countries doesn’t rely on physical security to maintain ownership I…

But you can then by using law, unsteal it. If bitcoin's gone, it's gone. There is no recourse.

Re: “My PGP key is compromised, and at least many of my bitcoins stolen”

#490

Post by danaris »

willnonya wrote: post #255
spicymaki wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! if the experts can’t secure their accounts, what hope does anyone else have? Soon you will see people saying you should have done this or that complicated thing, or how somebody so smart could should have known better. No matter what they say it is never enough. This is why lack of consumer protections suck.

"This is why lack of consumer protections suck" So, rather than the consumer being responsible for their actions you support consumers engaging in whatever risky behavior they like as long as someone else is there to protect them or give them a do-over?

This is a false dichotomy.

There is a big middle ground between "cover for users engaging in whatever risky behavior they like" and "cover for nothing whatsoever".

In this case, the problem is expecting users to be perfectly diligent, and either discard all convenience or all security.

Cryptocurrency continues to be a case study demonstrating why so many of the systems it's trying (unsuccessfully) to replace operate in ways that it doesn't.

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