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Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

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Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#481

Post by hnlmorg »

tedunangst wrote: post #215
hnlmorg wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. For me, the issue is that this restriction is upheld at point of entry and not point of sale. I get it’s a harder problem to restrict who tickets are sold to, but if a venue like that wants to get petty about who can attend their shows then the responsibility is on them to communicate that before the event. To flip this another way, in any other normal circumstance, when you get banned from a venue you’d get…

I'm not sure why everyone is assuming she was denied a refund.

In a lot of cases the face value of the ticket isn’t the biggest expense.

You can have travel costs, parking, lunch (whereas you’d otherwise cooked at home), possibly some time off work. And that’s before you touch on the emotional expense of being excluded from an activity you were looking forward to and which your friends and family were let into.

While these are all expenses that the patrons happily take on, that is under the assumption that they are allowed to enter the venue.

I know I’d feel pretty peeved at having gone through all of that for nothing. It just adds to the frustration of the day.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#482

Post by humanistbot »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #442
benreesman wrote: post #424

The Constitution wasn’t designed for this. The framers did an amazing job at writing documents and expressing ideals that have held up astonishingly well through insane technological change. But if I want my face catalogued next to my social credit score why not go all in and move to China? It’s not great but the only mechanism in sight that seems equipped to deal with this is restraint semi-enforced by social consen…

I know this is just a rhetorical point of yours, but maybe we can start to accept that America and the west as whole is not actually significantly different from China with stuff like this. Thinking about it, why would we be? I can't see a good answer to that without appealing to weird/nationalistic/naive ideas about the moral character of states themselves, or simply the understanble nonlogic of "well this is my cou…

> I know this is just a rhetorical point of yours, but maybe we can start to accept that America and the west as whole is not actually significantly different from China with stuff like this.

This is such black-and-white thinking. Most EU countries are kilometers ahead of the US, and the US is miles ahead of Russia. Putin would love for Russia to race to the bottom and get to China's level, but Russia is way behind China in terms of technical expertise, investment, infrastructure, and actual coordination/coercion between government and industry (vs crony corruption). And then there are the new Chinese colonies in Africa who get all the surveillance and none of the benefits.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#483

Post by seany »

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #108

Everyone always goes for the discrimination angle, but what frightens me is that like other modern automated tech of this decade the facial recognition used here probably has a horrendous false positive rate which most institutions will none the less treat as the final truth. Unrelated this is also why I fear most of this new AI stuff so much despite working in the field; the accuracy rates on these things in product…

NIST actually does reports on vendors for this stuff publicly. https://pages.nist.gov/frvt/html/frvt1N.html

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#484

Post by js2 »

I can see two viable ways to prevent this from happening without taking sides on whether or not businesses should be allowed to deny service to non-protected classes of people.

1. A laser-targeted law banning facial recognition technology used for the sole purpose of denying service.

2. Not letting corporations get as large as MSG in the first place.

I'm a fan of (2). If there's one thing I would hope people across the political spectrum could agree on it's that the Federal government has seriously fallen down on its anti-trust authority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden_Entertai...

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#485

Post by andrekandre »

monksy wrote: post #333
kstrauser wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right: it's the policy that's bad. However, facial recognition is what makes enforcing that policy possible, and society and the law haven't changed quickly enough to deal with the repercussions. For instance, say 18 year old "Joe" gets caught stealing soda from a fast food place. The manager kicks him out and bans him from the store. Fast forward a decade, when Joe walks back into the store with his wife and…

This is happening already with PatronScan which is being pushed agressively into schools, and bars: https://scribe.nixnet.services/id-at-the-door-meet-the-secur... There have been references to the ban lists going from one venue to another.

  > There have been references to the ban lists going from one venue to another.
seems like social-credit score without the score... how would anyone even know their "standing" in such a system?

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#486

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #474
rapht wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your private property is what it is, private. Your business place, assuming a public business, is indeed that: a place open to the public by default. In France (and, as far as I'm aware, most European countries), there is a very clear line: either your business place welcomes the general public, or it does not. Once you fall in the first category - and, as soon as you're selling something in that business place, you…

Running a business doesn't magically turn your place of business into public property. I run a home business. Does that mean the general public are free to enter and roam around my home office? In the USA at least, you can kick out or ban anyone you want from your business for any reason, unless it is one of a very small enumerated list of disallowed reasons including race, religion and so on. If I don't want people…

[deleted]

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#487

Post by andrekandre »

belfalas wrote: post #476
chrisbaker98 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America and the west as whole is not actually significantly different from China with stuff like this. As someone who has spent many years of my life living outside "America and the West": this is not remotely true.

Same, America and the West are significantly different from places like China or Russia. It's not even close.

what are some stand-out differences?

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#490

Post by enraged_camel »

kiernanmcgowan wrote: post #358
kayodelycaon wrote: post #214

This reminds me of an incident that showed up in one of my college courses: A forklift driver who got fired for drinking Budweiser. He worked for a company that Miller Brewing company contacted with and a newspaper took a photo of him at a public event drinking Budweiser. Different situation, same kind of pettiness and retaliation.

The required brand loyalty from Miller crazy - friends who have worked for them will pour non-miller beverages into glassware so that they can't be photographed holding a competitor's product. This is not in public mind you, but at someone else's apartment and not on company time. Not sure if Budweiser / AB does the same thing back but its a really backwards way to run a company culture.

Didn't Microsoft not allow employees to have Apple devices for a while? Or vice versa? I remember something along those lines.
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