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US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

energy.gov

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Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#481

Post by marcyb5st »

jmartrican wrote: post #443
eklitzke wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangentially related, but I think this is an interesting fact, all the atoms in our universe/galaxy/solar system with a mass up to that of iron are formed in the core of stars in stellar fusion. Hydrogen fuses into helium, and as a star nears the end of its lifetime you get heavier elements like lithium, carbon, and so on. Under normal stellar fusion no elements heavier than iron will be produced, and iron is only el…

So that means that for life to form, we probably need a star to die so that the heavier atoms used in complicated life forming chemical reactions (correct me if i am wrong here as what I'm about to say depends on it), hence it could be the case that if the universe is 13.5 billion years old, then we humans are appearing in the universe at the earliest possible time. 13.5 billion years seems like the time required to…

Not necessarily. First generation stars were, theoretically, enormous both due to low metallicity of the collapsed medium and a higher average concentration of said medium. These stars lifespans were extremely short, shorter that blue giants we see today. So novas due to the death of these stars happened fairly early in the lifespan of the universe (talking about few million years after the big bang).

Therefore, life could have developed in a few tens to few hundreds of millions of years after the big bang. That's still true even if we assume that heavier elements are created mainly when neutron stars collide and not by super/hypernovas as we theorized before LIGO/Virgo observatories.

Consequently, we likely are not a "progenitor" civilization in the universe if we only consider planets formation. We might not see anyone out there either because there's a great filter for intelligent life to emerge (so the bottleneck is in our past) or because few/no civilizations get to have an impact on their host stars (the filter is in our future) that would allow us to see them.

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#482

Post by maxbaines »

jmartrican wrote: post #443
eklitzke wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangentially related, but I think this is an interesting fact, all the atoms in our universe/galaxy/solar system with a mass up to that of iron are formed in the core of stars in stellar fusion. Hydrogen fuses into helium, and as a star nears the end of its lifetime you get heavier elements like lithium, carbon, and so on. Under normal stellar fusion no elements heavier than iron will be produced, and iron is only el…

So that means that for life to form, we probably need a star to die so that the heavier atoms used in complicated life forming chemical reactions (correct me if i am wrong here as what I'm about to say depends on it), hence it could be the case that if the universe is 13.5 billion years old, then we humans are appearing in the universe at the earliest possible time. 13.5 billion years seems like the time required to…

Very much a laymen also, however funnily enough I was listening to a bbc program called in our time, a couple of nights ago, where a similar topic was discussed one comment was that life is carbon based and for carbon to exist a star has to die, so yes therefore we are in the early stages. Will try to fin the episode….

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#483

Post by [deleted] »

stock_toaster wrote: post #338
eklitzke wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangentially related, but I think this is an interesting fact, all the atoms in our universe/galaxy/solar system with a mass up to that of iron are formed in the core of stars in stellar fusion. Hydrogen fuses into helium, and as a star nears the end of its lifetime you get heavier elements like lithium, carbon, and so on. Under normal stellar fusion no elements heavier than iron will be produced, and iron is only el…

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff”. – Carl Sagan

[deleted]

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#485

Post by zizee »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #464
saboot wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an explicit goal of the NIF to better understand the physics of fusion for weapons research. Not the main one but it's pretty important!

My point was: NIF would be funded via DOE whether or not it's relevant for weapon research. Sorry for not have been clearer.

I'm no expert, but I think you have it backwards. My understanding is NIF raison d'etre is weapons research, with a power generation being a secondary concern. It got funded because of weapons research regardless of whether it was relevant to fusion power generation.

It may surprise people, but the DOE is the government body that is responsible for nuclear weapons research in the US.

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#487

Post by jboy55 »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #440
jboy55 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its actually pretty good, since this is primarily weapons testing. The real money is being spent in the EU, where there is at least a chance of getting a sustainable fusion reaction.

It's, depending what calculation you believe, around 20 billion for ITER. Started in 2013, first plasma in 2025, first full fusion in 2035. So about a billion per year. Of course, costs are calculated differently, and I'm not sure on what time scale the 600 million are, but it's not that drastically different. Research wise, it's a pretty big chunk of money. But yeah, more money in research would be nice. (Disclaimer…

Yes, I think more research towards eventual power generation, rather than weapon testing, would be better.

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#488

Post by ok_dad »

gretch wrote: post #480
steam_raven wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have calcium in our bones, iron in our veins, carbon in our souls, and nitrogen in our brains. 93 percent stardust, with souls made of flames, we are all just stars that have people names" Nikita Gill

I understand this is a poem that is focused on artistic expression and not scientific accuracy, but I find the line about “carbon in our souls” to be out of place. I guess the rest of the poem is incidentally correct (when not abstract)

One who is a materialist could argue that your "soul" comes from the stuff you're made out of, so your "soul" probably has carbon it somewhere.

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#489

Post by AnimalMuppet »

smegger001 wrote: post #419
trhr wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> True in the Civil War. >You think so? Ya'll lost 200,000 men to Southern fever, steel, and shot. Next time it'll be 20 million. Know your limits, yankee, and stay north of Dallas. The south started with a treasonous surprise attack and had most of the the infantry that wasn't stationed in isolated western frontier territory or along the us-canada border, the countries war college at westpoint and many of the countr…

Nit: The south did not start out with West Point. It's in New York.

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#490

Post by TeeMassive »

petilon wrote: post #349
mustacheemperor wrote: post #2

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm taking this particular moment just to swell with pride and excitement for this achievement by science and forget about the details of how much more needs to be done to create the first power plant. I'm remembering when I first learned about fusion energy development, how distant and unfeasible it seemed, and regardless of how long the road ahead still is it's incredible how f…

When you consider that they laser they used consumed 300 megajoules from the wall plug, in order to send 1.8 megajoules to the target, the fact that they got 2.5 megajoules out looks puny in comparison. Even newer lasers only have 20% wall plug efficiency according to the press conference. So the important point here is, there was no net energy gain. They spent 300 megajoules to get 2.5 out. The scientists only talk…

As was pointed out in other comments, their lasers and electrical equipment were not efficient as it was not necessary to get the scientific knowledge.
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