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Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

blogs.windows.com

481–490 of 567 posts

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or full-featured Linux, for that matter.

I wish macOS just was Linux.

What more *nix do you want on macOS than is already there?

I can understand from the lockdown perspective (i.e. just give me a Vulkan driver on macOS) but as a polished DTE with a unix terminal I find it pretty decent.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I buy a Mac Mini for Linux when devices like this exist? The Qualcomm chip is officially supported and much cheaper than buying the Mac. Seems to be much less hassle and better value on the Microsoft side of things.

> Qualcomm The main reason so many Android devices are throwaway junk is Qualcomm. Don't rely on them for anything that you still want to keep running for more than a couple of years.

We used a Qualcomm module for wifi/bluetooth connectivity on an IoT device and the bluetooth just straight up didn't work for a handful of Android devices. We had to wait like a year for a mitigation, since it was closed source firmware. That was after like a 3 month process of actually find someone who would hear our issue.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#483
post #78

The difference here is that the M1 in the M1 mac mini is faster than Apple's phone SoC (the A16). The Qualcomm 8cx gen 3 (what a terrible name) in this machine is NOT faster than even Qualcomm's phone SoC (the 8 gen 1), let alone Apple's phone SoC. It's absurd to be selling a desktop PC that's weaker than a phone.

It really depends if they did their homework related to thermal management and ventilation. Some phones have relatively fast cpus but they throttle so quickly because of temp that power can only be used in short bursts.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gaming isn't even that much of an issue anymore, so for casual players it's pretty fine. I don't expect "casual" gamers setup Wine+Proton+MoltenVK. It's better to say that let's play game on PlayStation. If you mean really "casual", they play on iPhone.

Cloud gaming is an option as well.

Ah that's good point for who with great network connection.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#485
post #285

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I wouldn’t recommend Windows on arm if you just want a general purpose machine, it is still very niche and will need time to be well supported. Just get a desktop with a recent Intel or AMD and reinstall the OS if you want to ensure you have something clean.

Well, a general purpose development machine. I’d like to be able to run office and a go compiler, not games

I’m confused by your response, I did not mention gaming.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#486
post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Azure cloud instances are also an option. I couldn’t find ARM with windows, can you help?

It's in Public Preview, I believe. I was able to create one relatively easily. https://imgur.com/a/bHXcNTz

That doesn't show desktop Windows on an ARM VM.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#487
post #227

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Prefer 32GB than a better CPU. By the way When the fuck did 32GB become an entry requirement, I am so saddened by the crappy software and stacks that treats memory like an infinite resource

Agree. Further I nowadays see crappy software developers instead of being apologetic or at least modest, claim some kind of moral high ground along the lines of "This software wouldn't even exist if not for our accomplishments , so be thankful to us" I'd hope some one have already or will write thesis on correlation between Rise of Javascript stack and narcissism in software industry .

The "beggars can't be choosers" attitude probably correlates with a lot of software becoming $0.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#488
post #89

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> The Mac Mini is what you get if you want to make a Mac or iOS app This is probably closer to the Mac Mini with M1 that they shipped to kick-start the Apple Silicon transition for desktop apps. Because if I was a windows programmer for today's customers, I can't really build things on a "Windows on Arm" device like this. Like Apple before, I hope this is just the first salvo against the Windows+Intel, before we all…

I imagine Dr. Su a couple of years ago whispered to a couple of lead technicians "you are going to start a little garage side project here at AMD; it will be the future" AMD releases 32-core + ARM APUs

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/221282-amds-first-arm-ba...

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#489
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the Nuvia acquisition seems to indicate that at least Qualcomm wants to . might be some generations before we see their designs.

Lol, Qualcomm is Oracle of hardware world. Buying a company is a no way an indicator that they want to do anything. They haven't delivered a good SoC since Apple released A7.

The Snapdragon 870 just to name one.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#490
post #429

This is Microsoft's second go at a developer-focused ARM kit. You may recall the first was called the Snapdragon Developer Kit [1] and was a miserable machine. It appears Microsoft has already pulled it from the Microsoft Store [2]. There is no other supported desktop/CI/etc. solution for Windows on ARM. (Mac mini with Parallels/VMware is a popular unsupported alternative. It may still be your fastest.) Seems like a…

Snapdragon Developer Kit was built with a "cost above all" mandate, $219 target pricing but it just wasn't powerful enough. > There is no other supported desktop/CI/etc. solution for Windows on ARM. (Mac mini with Parallels/VMware is a popular unsupported alternative. It may still be your fastest.) Azure cloud instances are also an option. > but I'm not sure if there's remaining appetite for Windows target-specific d…

I feel Microsoft is in a similar position to it’s windows phones in regards to ARM.

Additionally they don’t have a system like Rosetta 2 to help with translation, a LOT of windows apps are x32/64 based, and there has to be an incentive for devs to make the switch, Apple faced this issue when moving from PPC, they used I believe Carbon to help, and over time took carbon off and forced devs to update to apples current architecture at the time.

Electron unfortunately does seem like the potential way forward for apps, not just because of Windows and their handling of ARM, but it’s also potentially cheaper to develop against as its multi platform, 1Password is a prime example of this, and outside of the hardcore audience like us, they won’t notice the increased resource use of electron.

Microsoft has proven however electron can be good, see Visual Studio Code, plus with the advent of chrome os gaining traction, it’s likely we may head into a web first world, outside a niche subset of users.

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