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What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

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Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#481

Post by sdave »

fabfabfab wrote: post #64
_glass wrote: post #27

I am an SAP developer since kind of forever, my first job after university (since 2009). First I hated it, but the deeper I am entrenched, the more I see why you choose SAP: Because there really is no alternative. The data model is so complex because it is growing iteratively since the 80s. Hacker News is valuing businesses that adjust to the customer instead of going for some kind of purity. Another complexity espec…

Speaking of purity, the first thing Hacker News would do is try to run SAP on a Kubernetes cluster, refactor crucial bits in Rust and shard the database into sqlite3.db files on per user basis. We'd also recommend you restructure your office for a more open space, bring down the cubicles and make sure the conference rooms are glasswalled and have funny names. Bringing pets to work is mandatory.

Someone would claim to implement sap over a weekend !

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#482

Post by wmeredith »

sotix wrote: post #310

I worked in public accounting with some major corporations as clients. Every single company I interacted with used SAP. It is the de facto software in its field and is deeply entrenched. Its UX is the most horribly wicked thing I’ve ever come across. We would conduct walkthroughs with process control owners that showed us what they would do in SAP to perform their job functions, and it would take multiple, intelligen…

> It is the de facto software in its field and is deeply entrenched. Its UX is the most horribly wicked thing I’ve ever come across.

These go hand in hand

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#483

Post by Vanderson »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #435
KronisLV wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel there is a lot of room to develop better tools that are not so horrid, however, the process for replacing SAP will be long and close to impossible. Personally, I rather liked the approach that Oodoo takes: https://www.odoo.com/ It tries to be pretty modular and even the cloud hosted plans can be mixed and matched, in addition to which the apps can be self-hosted for free: https://www.odoo.com/page/all-apps O…

Customizing odoo is a nightmare it is similar to "It doesn't do everything you want, but it does everything your business needs". (quote by Larry Ellison about Oracle ERP). Underneath its a mess but at least its open source.

We are doing an Odoo implementation right now. (a few months in)

What did you find is a mess about Odoo? And why is customizing it a nightmare?

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#484

Post by marcosdumay »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #183
dandare wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UX is horrible because: a) Engineering: Nobody will rewrite 20 year old views just to improve the UX. In many cases, nobody even dares to touch the 20 years old spaghetti code. b) Sales: The buyer is not the user. The buyer (playing golf with a sales rep) doesn't give a damn about the actual productivity of what he is buying. c) Management: There is a solid economical rationale in not giving a fcuk about UX. Over…

> The buyer is not the user. The buyer (playing golf with a sales rep) doesn't give a damn about the actual productivity of what he is buying I see this trotted out a lot but are all large companies really that oblivious? Do none of the decision makers talk with the people that work for them? Surely those executives aren't so divorced from reality and common sense that they don't see a problem when people complain th…

The third point is plain old corruption, so there's no reason for anybody to be surprised that the second point is incompetence.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#485

Post by bonzini »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #456
giva wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft offers Dynamics 365 F&O (previously known as Dynamics AX) for medium to large companies. (Microsoft uses SAP as an ERP).

Absolutely wild to me that MS doesn't dogfood their own offering. That alone would dissuade me from ever considering it.

Are you a 100,000 employee company?

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#486

Post by mrmaloke »

cgeier wrote: post #328
meibo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a genuine question, I don't mean to rip on you: Why is everything SAP I've used terrible? From payroll, employee/student management to industrial control systems - the UX is horrible and it seems so brittle that you're happy if you're out of there as quickly as possible. I've had to reach out to my school's IT multiple times over the years since random parts of the SAP tool they used break.

I would disagree that the UX is horrible. It definitively is neither pretty, discoverable nor intuitive, but in the hands of experienced power users (who have spent a lot of time learning the UI), it works really well. I have seen people (who have used the system probably for > 10 years) dig the most arcane information out in seconds, navigating through about ten different views without ever touching a mouse. It's a…

I would disagree with your disagreement and instead argue that the UX is indeed horrible.

SAP is very inconsistent across different views. It's not about learning a different concept, but memorizing each little detail.

On some forms you need to press to get to the next one. Sometimes it's clicking a button. Another time it's .

You can become a pro in SAP UIs, of course. But it's tedious and your knowledge applies nowhere else.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#488

Post by hef19898 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #427
hef19898 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the duration of the ERP project, SAP is not different to any other vendor in that regard, from preparation through hyoer care after go live, yes. Yes, you have 3-5 expensive SAP, or other ERP system, consultants sitting next one internal IT guy and another 3-5 internal business people with a very deep understanding of the business processes in question and solid basic knowledge about ERP systems. Otherwise you se…

Yeah, I can't see any better argument against contracting an ERP package. This is exactly true, and those 3-5 way more expensive new developers you are hiring through a 3rd party won't create anything better than the original one that knew your company. (They are not temporary either, because the duration of the ERP project is forever.)

And the alternative to an ERP in an manufacturing environment is what exactly, in your opinion?

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#489

Post by orbifold »

dandare wrote: post #74
meibo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a genuine question, I don't mean to rip on you: Why is everything SAP I've used terrible? From payroll, employee/student management to industrial control systems - the UX is horrible and it seems so brittle that you're happy if you're out of there as quickly as possible. I've had to reach out to my school's IT multiple times over the years since random parts of the SAP tool they used break.

The UX is horrible because: a) Engineering: Nobody will rewrite 20 year old views just to improve the UX. In many cases, nobody even dares to touch the 20 years old spaghetti code. b) Sales: The buyer is not the user. The buyer (playing golf with a sales rep) doesn't give a damn about the actual productivity of what he is buying. c) Management: There is a solid economical rationale in not giving a fcuk about UX. Over…

Golf is really the key here, much nicer to play a few rounds of golf with Dietmar in his Club than think too hard about ERP processes.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#490

Post by ComodoHacker »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #456
giva wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft offers Dynamics 365 F&O (previously known as Dynamics AX) for medium to large companies. (Microsoft uses SAP as an ERP).

Absolutely wild to me that MS doesn't dogfood their own offering. That alone would dissuade me from ever considering it.

They also don't use Access to store Windows Update catalog. I don't see anything wild here, appropriate tools for different jobs.
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