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As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

economist.com

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Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#481

Post by bshepard »

KMag wrote: post #473
crisdux wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days, the United States has proven they mainly follow the rules when it benefits them. So much for rules based international order. It's all unraveling as we return to a multi-polar world. History will probably look back and see the United States' global regime as starting off well. But it quickly engaged in the same brutalilty, lawlessness and arrogance as every other failed empire.

There are certainly manifold shameful aspects to US foreign policy. However, it does humanity a disservice to disregard the degree to which the US has tried to promote self-determination in the past 40 years. The US really tried to run free and fair elections in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Taliban and Al-Sadr-aligned parties were allowed to stand in elections. The majority Shia and Kurdish minorities in Iraq now have m…

Invading a country is the opposite of self-determination, and justifying invasion based on an abstracted universalism was also used by the British empire.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#482

Post by wangii »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

when was the last time China invaded another country and killed hundreds of thousands? I really not interested in arguing good vs. evil, China VS US, but your blindness is just amazing!

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#483

Post by KMag »

bshepard wrote: post #481
KMag wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certainly manifold shameful aspects to US foreign policy. However, it does humanity a disservice to disregard the degree to which the US has tried to promote self-determination in the past 40 years. The US really tried to run free and fair elections in Afghanistan and Iraq. The Taliban and Al-Sadr-aligned parties were allowed to stand in elections. The majority Shia and Kurdish minorities in Iraq now have m…

Invading a country is the opposite of self-determination, and justifying invasion based on an abstracted universalism was also used by the British empire.

Maybe I should have used the term "popular self-determinism". If the result is the government better represents the will of the populace at large, then popular self-determinism is improved, even if externally imposed.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#484

Post by dirtyid »

noisy_boy wrote: post #450
fabianhjr wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from latin america and at least neither China nor Russia have participated in coup d'etat to install a military junta to then torture and massacre anyone slightly left of the US "Democratic" Party. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI

China has learned from US policies and has instead opted for more insidious and less "noisy" approaches like hard to repay soft-loans, mass buying of agricultural lands, starting vice businesses like casinos etc which also result in societal changes once the businesses started by Chinese start bringing a sizable influx of Chinese to work in them. See northwest Laos for a direct example (this is not an armchair commen…

>insideous

Which is fairly tame in terms of securing geopolitical influence and enables more win-win arrangments. Especially with respect to Laos - a landlocked country with (to be blunt) zero long term development prospects. Laos per capital GDP growth has been on pace with booming Vietnam that has access to outsource manufacturing and maritime trade. Laos should be worse off than Cambodia that has 60% of current Laos per capita GDP. Even their largest export/growth sector - hydropower to Thailand is enabled by PRC (not to sound patronizing). PRC infra projects setup Laos to be the battery of region + rail connectivity for other exports = only real viable of short/medium term growth strategy for a undeveloped landlocked country with poor human development. Go look up gdp per capita trends of ASEAN since 2000 when PRC growth started blowing up, also LATM during same period. You'll be hard pressed to find any country whose per capita GDP increased by 8x like Laos. Many are luck with half that. As for societal changes on border regions that benefits from flow of migrant and economic development, that's what happens when countries get richer - things change. If you think that's a bad deal then I'm curious if you can find a better one, especially for a land locked country with no maritime access.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#485

Post by Dylan16807 »

burntbridge wrote: post #393
jes wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this[1] report (PDF) from the DEA: "Currently, China remains the primary source of fentanyl and fentanyl-related substances trafficked through international mail and express consignment operations environment, as well as the main source for all fentanyl-related substances trafficked into the United States. Seizures of fentanyl sourced from China average less than one kilogram in weight, and often test above 9…

>Presumably, if the CCP wanted to do so, they could put an end to the groups shipping this deadly substance into the United States. Presumably, if the United States wanted to do so, they could put an end to the groups shipping this deadly substance from the China. Just changed the wording a little to show the bias in this sentence. Why do think China would be more successful than the U.S. in prohibiting illegal drugs…

Are they being imported by "groups" the same way?

This is assuming manufacturing is being done by large groups... but it usually is. Manufacturing tiny amounts is much much harder than importing tiny amounts.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#486

Post by dirtyid »

voisin wrote: post #20

So here’s my tinfoil hat theory. When I watch Tik Tok (and I am fully aware my feed is different from others), I become genuinely happy. I see people singing, creating music together via duets, showing homesteading skills, teaching things they know, telling funny jokes, etc. I never see dangerous challenges, though I am not a teen. Here’s the tinfoil hat theory: Tik Tok is what social media was meant to be, but unlik…

Tiktok is an extention of lessons learned by Douyin - content that survives crucibles of PRC censorship are wholesome, not divisive (promotes political serenity) and hits the dopamine button just as hard. And if Douyin ecommerce integration is any sign, also wildly profitable. TBH, PRC has absolutely been precient on web moderation in general, i.e. facebook and twitter got the boot when they refused to censor calls of violence post 2009 minority riots. A few years later, western platforms forced to up the moderation game due to violence in the west, incidentally when they tried to get back into PRC market. After building (filtering (read: censorship) tools for western markets that can be transplanted to satisfy PRC legal requirements. Some lessons to learn even if US decides to ban TikTok, don't have to go full douyin/PRC, but going full facebook/twitter/free speech hasn't worked so well either.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#487

Post by _tik_ »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

"more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII" What rules and order that justified by Invading Iraq

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#488

Post by _tik_ »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #311
fabianhjr wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian Federation != Union of Soviet Socialist Republics More so: Russian Federation != Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic

USA during Reagan in 1980s != USA today

Iraq Invasion is the USA today

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#489

Post by galactus »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #309
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised if you polled non-US, non-China citizens about what country is the biggest geopolitical threat to the world. Wait, I don't even need to talk in conditionals. I Googled it and apparently it has indeed been done several times, and the results are what I expected. https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peace/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo...

Quoted post unavailable.

“ First of all average people's opinions outside of western democracies are meaningless because those people don't have access to education or information to form any real opinions.”

This is insane. Your arrogance and total ignorance about the rest of the world is just crazy.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#490

Post by arroz »

_tik_ wrote: post #487
Calvin02 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

"more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII" What rules and order that justified by Invading Iraq

Yeah the US invaded Irak many years ago. Today we have Russia invading Irak and China threatening to invade Taiwan.
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