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The Coming Food Catastrophe

economist.com

481–490 of 634 posts

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#481
post #473
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, he's banned all opposition parties. Where's the democracy? He was a direct employee of a Ukrainian billionaire oligarch, plenty of ties, just check the Pandora Papers...

What are you talking about? He didn't ban opposition, only pro-russian (and that is just small part of opposition).

Yeah? One of those parties had nearly 10% of the seats in the Ukrainian parliament. That's not a democratic move.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#482
post #466
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would rather have 1lb beef than 10lb nominally edible soy extractives The argument is not "eat soy extractives instead of meat". It's more like "lunch on veggies 2 or 3 days per week instead of having meat on every meal, including breakfast". It obviously includes repurposing some of the land used to raise cattle into other things more suitable for direct human consumption. No one is talking about making you eat…

Vegetables also have horrendous nutritional profiles. For the most part, the only parts of plants with anything approaching good nutritional qualities are fruits. Human resistance to various poisons also makes certain root vegetables like potatoes acceptable, but they are not great. I will continue extracting the preponderance of my nutrition from meat.

preponderance!

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#483
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't really make any sense though. It changes nothing about the geopolitical reality of what's going on. If the US sends a merchant ship and a cruiser, what is russia going to do exactly? Try to bomb the ships? They will lose, and get shot down. Why would it suddenly be WWIII? Is russia really going to say "Well, they shot down our plane so its global thermonuclear war time".

Russia might respond with conventional cruise missile strikes against US forces in the region.

Unlikely. That would give all of NATO casus belli.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#484

From doom-scrolling the Ukraine/Russia war it is pretty obvious that Ukrainian farmers have not been idle. Battles are being fought in the treelines and along rivers next to plowed and planted fields. Hopefully some of these crops are harvested and make it to market.

it would be a crime against Ukrainian people to export that grain though

oh it was already a crime against ukrainian people when puppet of kiev aka zelenskyyy and neo-nazi azov battalion took Ukraine to a war with Russia.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#485
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? can you quantify what that means, are they going hungry, short of fuel, is their currency collapsing, do they have rampant inflation? Or is just that people that got us in this mess are telling you that some how russians are suffering so much that they have to give up. Wasn't that suppose to happen immediately upon the weaponisation of the USD? When will it happen, after we all starve, after all infrastructur…

the people that got "us" into this mess are the ones who initiated a genocidal war of territorial conquest in modern times (after repeatedly lying that they would) not coincidentally, they are also the only ones who can get "us" out of it, by withdrawing – the Ukrainian people have seen the rape, torture, and executions that result from allowing genocidal russian troops to control a single square foot of Ukrainian la…

Please, stop this moral high ground rhetorical hypocrisy of the highest order. The US has had no qualms about invading countries or applying sanctions that harm innocent people. There are no good guys. People will all do terrible things for "the greater good", there is no worldly greater good from these soulless bureaucratic monoliths of state hood. They will set targets and strive for them irrespective of the human cost. Nazi german showed the way with their welfare state for the German people and everyone has followed suit.

If you want to stop the russians then declare war don't sit on the side lines trying to manipulate from a safe distance using the likes of sanctions or arming militias that we once all agreed were actual German Nazi evangelists, look at the iconography it's not even in doubt.

It's not hard to convince populations to do any thing, the pandemic should have taught us all that.

Edit: For the record i'm not justifying or demonising either side, do what you got to do, but know that i don't buy any holier than thou BS from either side. But put your money where your mouth is, if Russia must be stop do then do it, declare war or park a carrier group or two in the black sea, enforce no flyzones or guarantee shipping.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The third solution doesn’t make much sense since livestock consumption is mostly made up of inedible foods that we can’t eat like husks, stems, leaves, etc. of plants. Livestock is effective for up-cycling foods we can’t digest and turning it into foods that we can such as meat and dairy. Also there is a lot of food waste in the US. Good food that is suitable for livestock…

When scientists take all the complex factors into account and do the sums it turns out that in general plant-based foods are still far more sustainable than livestock, e.g. https://theconversation.com/climate-explained-how-the-climat...

I haven't seen one of these that takes major factors into account. Tires and pet food contain animals. Animal by-products are used everywhere. Switching away would require replacements. Replacements would become more efficient with economy of scale, but initial switching costs will be high. Some replacements, like food for our obligate-carnivore cats, might not be possible.

Simplest example: Beyond meat is 2-4x the price of meat.

It seems pretty clear that switching away from protein sources like lamb and cows in favor of pork and chicken is carbon-positive.

There's likely an optimal level of meat consumption. Unfortunately most of our information comes from either an industry and farmers dependent on our continued meat consumption, or dishonest vegan evangelists.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#487
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is misleading. We raise very few animals purely through grazing on non-arable land. If nothing else, they need feeding through part of the year in many climates, and more typically, supplementary feed to increase intensity. Pure free range non-arable grazing ruminants constitute a relatively low percentage of total meat produced. A somewhat more common thing is to raise cattle on arable fallow land between crop…

> Battery farms, which is purely fed on crops grown where humans could grow food They are mostly fed on the byproducts of human food production. Human-edible material has higher margins than cattle feed, so cattle feed either comes from human ag byproducts (like soy meal) or from land that probably isn't good for much except hay.

are you saying that livestock mostly eat product that humans CANnot, or that livestock mostly eat products that humans simply currently DO not?

the distinction here is critical

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#488
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do other beans/pulses fit in vs meat?

Black beans, for example, have a PER of 0 (unrealistically low) and a PDCAAS of 0.75 (unrealistically high, vs 1 for egg). A realistic comparison can't be reduced to a single scalar, but for my own personal dietary requirements, I would probably want to eat 5-10x as many grams of nominal protein from black beans as from beef. This would be very challenging. I think some other beans like kidney beans fare somewhat bet…

can you explain for those of us less knowledgeable in this field, what math equations led you to the numbers, "5-10x"?

thank you

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he said is generally true [1], so you must have either stored your rice in an environment that prevented them from hatching, or got lucky. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_weevil

I've never seen anything like that and I've kept rice around for years as well. Do you live in a poor country where they don't have proper food protection agencies? If things like that hatched in food people bought from stores that would make the news, I've seen it in the news before so it can't happen that often.

> Do you live in a poor country where they don't have proper food protection agencies?

USA.

So, I mean, kinda.

But, unless they're irradiating or freezing your rice before it gets to the store, there are rice weevil eggs in it. They're inside the rice grains. If you've eaten much rice, you've eaten rice weevil eggs.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it would be a crime against Ukrainian people to export that grain though

oh it was already a crime against ukrainian people when puppet of kiev aka zelenskyyy and neo-nazi azov battalion took Ukraine to a war with Russia.

that's not what the Ukrainian people think, or what the world thinks, but it is certainly what the genocidal russian invaders think
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