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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#481

Post by sithlord »

Shuang1 wrote: post #451
mikemac wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with all of this, and just to add one thing: liability. Look at the RaDonda Vaught case or the Michelle Heughins case; terrifying to be looking at jail time for a med error. Many nurses are watching these cases more closely and deciding that since staffing isn't getting any better and they won't be protected, it's not worth the risk.

That case goes far beyond med error and I don't understand why people keep bringing it up as an example. She pulled the wrong med, and then injected it and walked out of the room rather than observing for effects. Also the med she pulled had warnings on all sides of the bottle and on the top saying very clearly that it's fatal to administer without ventilation. This went beyond a mistake to negligence.

Literally every medication has warnings slapped all over it. My partner worked at Vanderbilt (on a different floor) around this time, and one constant complaint I heard (prior to the incident) was how there was hardly any controls around anything there.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#482

Post by histriosum »

mfer wrote: post #127
tmp_anon_22 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This one is big for product designers. I think this is looking at the problem wrong. The problem is that implementing positive change in these systems is impossible for reasons far outside the control of any product designer or developer currently on the team. This software is old, has byzantine requirements, probably cut costs all over the place, and conceived in a board room without the benefit of an adequate dev…

> I think this is looking at the problem wrong. The problem is that implementing positive change in these systems is impossible for reasons far outside the control of any product designer or developer currently on the team. A developer working on something is different from a product designer. For product designer I don't mean a UI/UX developer. I mean someone empowered to design the thing. This is often a leader or…

> This is an opportunity. To build software that is both compliant and has a good UX. There's an opportunity to disrupt all the crap software here.

The thing that everyone is overlooking here is that EMR software is not designed with patient outcomes as the top priority. Every single EMR software I've seen in the field has been designed with BILLING as the top priority -- everything is organized around making sure that you can bill for the maximum number of services.

I don't think this can possibly change without regulation. The incentives are all wrong at every other layer.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#483

Post by narcindin »

eksx wrote: post #54

I work in tech with no college degree and about 9 years of programming experience. I make mid 100,000's per year. My S/O has 6 years of Emergency Department experience and a bachelors degree and she made about 65k at our local hospital. I think pay is an enormous factor in this. Her local hospital has nurses with less than 1 year of experience being preceptors to new grads.

When you say "mid 100,000's" do you mean ~150k or ~500K?

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#484

Post by MomoXenosaga »

mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

Dont forget the sexual harassment. Twenty two year old nurse and boomer men don't mix.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#485

Post by munk-a »

bratwurst3000 wrote: post #480
14 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a Canadian stand point you American nurses are already highly paid. My brother works in the US and was recently thinking of coming back to work closer to where he grew up. The best deal he could get here was $20usd less then what he makes there. So on top of making $20 more then a nurse here he is also making it in USD. He is making huge amounts of cash as a nurse down there. How much more do nurses need?

here in germany nurses make 15€ And in switzerland nearly the double. I can understand their frustration and those who can leave or get new jobs.

In Germany's defense, at least, Switzerland has some of the most insane wages in the world, and the cost of living there is equally high.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#486

Post by e40 »

mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

On (3), Kaiser seems to be the exception to this. Their systems, on the nurse/Dr side seem very easy to use and the connections between different departments work seamlessly. At least, from what I've noticed as a 10+ yr Kaiser patient in the Bay Area.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#487

Post by kingkawn »

Lots of blame being placed onto the business managerial class that has turned hospitals and the practice of medicine into a nightmare a la Kafka, but I think that the casual brutality of the healthcare educational model deserves a ton of the blame for this burnout. The reaction to all emotional trauma is to bury it and place all the energy into negotiating for higher pay. Money cannot endlessly sit in the place of enduring suffering, and the professions (medicine, nursing, PA, etc) will continue to degrade in quality as long as this barbaric understanding of emotional health is encouraged in the educational institutions.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#488

Post by ev0lv »

bitsnbytes wrote: post #196
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How doctors of all professions lost their professional agency to do-nothing administrators within a generation is quite puzzling and a bit terrifying to me. I have a lot of friends at various levels of healthcare, from nursing up through low and mid-level administrative positions. The one thing they all seem to agree on is that patient satisfaction surveys have been terrible for healthcare. Once the emphasis shifte…

"The one thing they all seem to agree on is that patient satisfaction surveys have been terrible for healthcare." My Wife is an ER nurse manager and while you have many self entitled idiotic patients that think they are staying in a resort versus visiting an ER, the patient satisfaction surveys is not very high in regards to the issue and why nurses are leaving. My wife actually had a person complain that the ER did…

>>4. RaDonda Vaught's conviction. This is certainly not helping the case to get more nurses.

The precedent RaDonda's conviction set is far from favorable to a profession which is already very difficult and taxing. This is a BIG reason.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#489

Post by whimsicalism »

black_puppydog wrote: post #325
germinalphrase wrote: post #55

I have a close relation that works for one of the oldest pediatric hospitals in the country. It was recently revealed that they will be shuttering almost all pediatric services in the next year because they can 10x their profits by only serving elderly clients. The entire purpose of this organization was to provide pediatric healthcare, and it wasn’t losing money… Sometimes, it feels like we’re min-maxing ourselves t…

Yeah if they're only after profits, why not become a hedge fund?

Becoming a hedge fund is actually a bad idea if you are only after profits because it is unclear that over long-time horizon this is actually a very profitable activity. We only remember the winners.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#490

Post by lazide »

JaimeThompson wrote: post #447
tristor wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This one is big for product designers. You're right that there are definitely opportunities for improvement here. As a Product person that has worked in EMR/Healthcare IT systems, I can tell you the biggest challenge is most of the decisions are driven by legally-required compliance. In many cases, you literally cannot make it better because the brokenness is /by design/ to comply with the law. Nearly across the bo…

Doctors and hospitals control some of the more powerful lobbying groups in the United States making it a bit strange they haven't worked on those issues.

Why when they get paid/further protected by it?
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