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Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

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Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#481

Post by scurraorbis »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #228
TimTheTinker wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one of the reasons we need a bigger, more powerful federal government is to have a governmental entity that can take on the massively more powerful private entities (corporations) that exist. Is bigger government more able to do this? It already has the power it needs -- the legislature can outlaw undesirable corporate behaviors, the justice department can pursue litigation (including antitrust litigation), and fed…

You need a government with enough heft to take on a corporation that has decided to ignore the law. If you think you can get heft via "better", go for it. History doesn't give me much reason to be optimistic. "The problem with corruption, inefficiency and stupidity in government is corruption, inefficieny and stupidity, not government."

Who limits liability of (certain types of) companies? The government. Maybe it should stop doing that and we could see if we still need all that heft?

What if the inefficiency, corruption and stupidity is due to the very nature of government?

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#482

Post by luciusdomitius »

TuringNYC wrote: post #433
luciusdomitius wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not answer - you listed my options and I was asking for the reaction of the collective. Because I know that functional illiteracy is becoming a serious problem, I'll do my best to help you: "How exactly are they going to limit my options to those, what are they going to do specifically?"

Specifically, the township would put a property tax lien on your property. Eventually, the liens would pile up and your property would have so many liens you'd have no value left in your house. Then the township would take you to court to enforce their right to collect the judgements. At that point, you'd most likely be forced to move out. The township would sell your home to recover the tax liens and judgements. A s…

" A sheriff would forcibly remove you from your home in such cases."

So, this is your "non-violent" collectivism?

Thank you very much. This is all I needed to hear.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#484

Post by redmen »

twobitshifter wrote: post #314
redmen wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add: this was long before Russian propaganda. I'm not saying I agree with it. Just something I have noticed. And my friends aren't online. They say this in person. For example, in a bar and hear someone being loud. American. Seeing tourists making lots of unnecessary noise in the street -> american. This is half joking but also what people seem to actually think a lot of the time.

In my experience this is more a European thing, I don’t have the same issues elsewhere, and then in the case of Europeans, they have said, you’re not like I expected an American to be, so they recognize their bias.

I met a girl last night in Mexico and she said, "you're not American are you? Americans are loud and they always want the rest of the world to hear them."

This is the sentiment I was trying to express. It's definitely not a cliche. I also find on a slightly related note that a lot of problems on social media are American problems and the rest of the world doesn't really care.

And I feel bad typing this but it's true, and if the USA wants to climb back from its decline it is going to need to get comfortable with reality.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#485

Post by lamontcg »

spupe wrote: post #470
lamontcg wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't cited anything "counterfactual".

I mentioned Canada and France. Could also list other countries like Austria and Netherlands that had similar issues. Hell, even Brazil, who had been improving economically and especially for its poorest people consistently since the 90s, and was taken over by a far right government that rose through social media, exactly the way Haidt describes. My point is that what we are witnessing here is better explained by the…

The right wing billionaire media blitz really took off with Rupert Murdoch and Fox News. That's the engine that has been driving a lot of it, and it is obviously transnational and doesn't know any boundaries (Murdoch is Australian). And it got started in the 90s before most people had discovered the Internet and before social media existed. The shift to neoliberalism also started with Blair and Clinton, but affected most of Europe and the Americas through all of the neoliberal institutions, including the EU, the G7/G8/G20, the WTO, agreements like NAFTA, etc. Social media didn't change the trajectory of any of that, it only accelerated it.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#486

Post by dragonwriter »

lamontcg wrote: post #485
spupe wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned Canada and France. Could also list other countries like Austria and Netherlands that had similar issues. Hell, even Brazil, who had been improving economically and especially for its poorest people consistently since the 90s, and was taken over by a far right government that rose through social media, exactly the way Haidt describes. My point is that what we are witnessing here is better explained by the…

The right wing billionaire media blitz really took off with Rupert Murdoch and Fox News. That's the engine that has been driving a lot of it, and it is obviously transnational and doesn't know any boundaries (Murdoch is Australian). And it got started in the 90s before most people had discovered the Internet and before social media existed. The shift to neoliberalism also started with Blair and Clinton, but affected…

> The shift to neoliberalism also started with Blair and Clinton

No, the left-most party in systems that were right – center or right – center-left getting fully on-board with neoliberalism happened with Blair and Clinton, but neoliberalism dominated the same states from at least Thatcher and Reagan, respectively.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#487

Post by groby_b »

jkhdigital wrote: post #84
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I see missing from Haidt's analysis is increased federalism and localism as a solution. I'm theoretically in favor of this, but ... one of the reasons we need a bigger, more powerful federal government is to have a governmental entity that can take on the massively more powerful private entities (corporations) that exist. No state government can take on Walmart or Amazon. The federal government can (or could,…

> No state government can take on Walmart or Amazon. An alternative theory posits that these massive corporations in fact depend upon the centralization of governmental regulatory and fiscal powers for their very existence. Regulatory capture is much easier to pull off when there’s only one central authority that needs to be captured.

That would be a good theory if we didn't see a global rise of massive corporations. If we for a moment cynically argue this as a question purely of lobbying spend: Once your corporation makes profits measured in billions, it is relatively easy to have a large lobbying spend across many different governments.

One answer here is a huge number of small governments. At the level of one for each largeish city, to make lobbying spend prohibitively high. That sort-of works, in that it creates incredible amounts of friction. It, however, also hobbles trade and innovation to an incredible degree.

I don't see that as a good answer. Neither, I think, is one humongous centralized government - while it has the resources to outspend corporations, it concentrates inordinate power in a small number of hands. And if you're willing to assume that corporations will use money to solve problems (because that's kind of their whole point), there's a very small step from there to just buying a sufficient set of politicians.

You need regulations somewhat unified to enable commerce at anywhere close to the level the world currently experiences. You need a decentralized system to deal with power concentration. This is an inherent tension that I can't see how to resolve in the face of corporations that are essentially the peers of nation states.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#488

Post by dymk »

rerbrerb wrote: post #483

Oh baby clutch those pearls tight with your wringed hand. So sick of this “it’s not us, it’s them” ignorant, blind, stupid fear mongering. STFU and do something about it. Talk to people on the other team for starters.

That's like telling the Titanic and the iceberg to just talk it out, but nobody is at the helm. This is a problem far bigger than "Just talk to somebody with a slightly different viewpoint!". This is a problem at the root of our society. It's an existential crisis that has been getting worse for decades.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#489

Post by dymk »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #154
mymythisisthis wrote: post #44

40 years of austerity in the west. Life span actually decreasing. Desperate people act out.

People aren't desperate in the West, not by a long shot. It's popular to complain in this particular way, but it just isn't borne out by facts. We are so rich that our poor are chronically fat. Even very poor people have very high standards of material living. Refrigerators, televisions, heat, etc. Many people in the world do not have these things still. There are people for whom lifespans are limited by things other…

> We are so rich that our poor are chronically fat

Obesity overwhelmingly affects the very more than it affects the rich. They're also the who lose their legs to diabetes when they can't afford medical treatment.

Basically, having access to calories does not mean that one is "rich" in any way, it's almost totally unrelated.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#490

Post by dymk »

freeone3000 wrote: post #217
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way this stuff is measured is broken. The baskets of goods aren't comparable. Given the choice between a $1000 (real) basket of goods from 1956 and a $1000 (real) basket of goods from 2022, which would you pick? To me the answer is obvious, 2022. Everything you get will be better. Better textiles, better food, cheap electronics...

From 1956? I'll take the automobile, please.

I hope you enjoy a steering column through the chest! Those things are deathtraps compared to even the cheapest 2022 car.
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