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YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

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Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#481
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clinton conceded the day after the election, filed zero law suits contesting it, and told her supporters to accept the outcome. She raised specific complaints regarding the process, but never suggested that they invalidated the results.

> She raised specific complaints regarding the process, but never suggested that they invalidated the results. She proclaims the election was stolen. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trum...

No, she doesn't use the word stolen, and she conceded; but the article you linked to provides evidence of interference.

> The investigation by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III concluded that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 election “in sweeping and systematic fashion” with the goal of helping Trump and harming Clinton

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#482

One of the hosts wrote this about it [1]: particularly appropriate quote: > What casual observers might not understand, however, is just how far the policy goes. Not only does YouTube punish channels that spread misinformation, but in many cases, it also punishes channels that report on the spread of misinformation. The platform makes no distinction between the speaker and the content creator. If a channel produces a…

This is it. This isn't really a discussion about freedom vs. censorship, it's about how social platforms need moderation, but they've become so big that they're utterly impossible to moderate properly.

The Uber strategy, services with no possible path to profitability being propped up indefinitely by billionaires that refuse to stop believing the dream of infinite growth, is incredibly damaging to any ecosystem it infests. Youtube only exists because Google wants data. Video hosting is just too expensive for any realistic business model to support storing and distributing every vacation video ever made, for free, forever. This cradle-to-grave life support preempts all competition and creates monopolies so large they begin to creak and splinter under their own weight.

The strategy for Youtube moderation is maximum efficiency per dollar: deal with as much muck as possible with the smallest budget possible, and just let the errors happen because it's too expensive to prevent them (but if the public outcry is big enough, they can reverse the decision.) They can't make things better. There's just no money for it, because Youtube is just too big and it doesn't, cannot, and will never make any money.

I was in a chat with someone who worked with Google once and they said, paraphrased, "Our company suggested we could have a team for providing support for non-Partner users, and Google flat-out said 'It doesn't matter how cheap you go, it cannot be done.'"

I'm really glad Patreon exists. I think the only solution to all of this is to break the notion that web hosting (and, on another topic, creative work) is free, or that it can be supported by ads. Things cost money. People should be expected to contribute to support services they use.

(And of course, that brings up the issue of those who don't have money being excluded. There is no societal problem more than six steps away from poverty/income inequality. Probably no more than four steps, even.)

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broadcasting uses a highly limited resource, local TV freqiencies. Especially until recently, these were really limited to a dozen or so channels per metro area. There are far more than a dozen websites out there.

DNS names are limited spectrum, right? Granted a US government monopoly. Last mile delivery by telephone and cable companies have government right of way monopolies. YouTube can’t be watched without government grants. And the Canadian (and other country) content laws apply to non-spectrum using channels. But all this is silly. The phone company can’t decide to cancel my phone call because of what I’m saying. A law ca…

Many people historically only had a single phone provider available at their home. Last mile internet isn't competitive for most people, I would agree they should be considered a common carrier. This concept of "common carrier" is important in this debate.

A train line that is the sole means of commerce in and out of a town is a common carrier. There's no competitors really possible to enter into that market. For that train line to decide to not run certain cargo outside of safety concerns is to then control all the commerce with no reasonable competitor.

Literally right now I'm watching streaming video content hosted from some service other than YouTube. I probably spend less than an hour a week watching YouTube content. It's hardly the only rail line in town, nor is it the only way I can view video content. Now if the only viable ISP said "you can't connect to YouTube, if you don't like it sell your house and move to the next town over" then yeah that's a common carrier and shouldn't be allowed to do that.

DNS names aren't limited by the US government. There are lots of TLDs which are controlled by other governments. And largely they're pretty much managed by lots of different corporations. Either way, the government directly getting involved in taking over your domain name without any due process just to silence your speech probably does become a first amendment issue at least for US nationals. Either way, they're massively less limited than how many effective TV freqiencies or phone providers are in a given metro area.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#484
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why don't they build their own platform? youtube can do what they want on their website.

I agree with this sentiment, although I agree it's stupid that The Hill was suspended. If anyone wants to give a reason why these arguments are always about freedom of speech VS censorship, instead of being about private property + free markets, please I'm open to this.

One issue you should consider is that the government can exert soft power on these companies.

The same people who regulate, pass laws, and appoint prosecutors who oversee litigation against big tech, also hold hearings and blame social media for fake news and extremism. There have been explicit calls to clean up their content or face regulation. That starts to implicate government censorship.

Google doesn't give a fuck about election integrity. They do business all around the world in places without elections. They use slave labor. But they are afraid US politicians might do a privacy crack down.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#485
post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - The Pennsylvania Supreme Court (not the legislature) changed their voting laws to accommodate widespread mail-in ballots and drop-boxes which was against the state constitution. And yet no one challenged the law until after the third election it had taken effect. Until after the results had come out. There's a doctrine called laches: you have to complain about things that wrong you when you find about them, and i…

You are right about the first part. You won't know you have a dead raccoon in your basement until it starts stinking. I was hearing the conservatives complain about the mass mail-in voting rules and Trump himself also, long before the actual election. On your second point: If a state holds an election contrary to their constitution and it's proven that it was contrary to their constitution, the votes wouldn't be cons…

the conservatives in Pennsylvania supported the change in the law that allowed for mail-in ballots.

Traditionally, older Pennsylvanians support conservative candidates. And with the state's population skewing older, Republicans in the state realized the thing that could dampen votes for their candidates was that the state's ancient, overly-tight restraints on what constituted a valid excuse for an absentee ballot meant that older Pennsylvanians who were shut in in nursing homes and couldn't find transportation to the polls increasingly wouldn't be able to vote for their candidates.

It was one of those bipartisan pieces of legislation that passed because Democrats believed the more of the population voted, the more would vote for them, and Republicans believed supporting the elderly's right to vote meant more Republican votes. In the end, they were probably both right.

Point is, the state Supreme Court rightfully saw through it when the people who'd supported the law in the first place called foul, but only in the third election the law was used, when their candidate wasn't the one who won.

... well, their candidate for President. An awful lot of their down-ticket candidates won. Which would be a weird thing to happen if the election had been rigged, wouldn't it?

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#486
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.

Not at all. Google is a private concern with the right to publish or not any content they see fit. That they can defacto censor opinions they don’t approve of is a failure of the market.

No post body was provided.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#487

The extent of the "censorship" is getting ridiculous. It is an overreach of the platforms.

Agreed…the hypocrisy of these decisions grows increasingly outrageous each day. For example, the reasoning behind the banning of Donald Trump from Twitter was that his rhetoric was “dangerous,” in that it may have encouraged/not discouraged the January 6 riot. On Tuesday (March 1), a Russian official threatened actual war over the economic sanctions the world is taking against his country [1]. His account is still active and the tweet is still up.

[1] https://twitter.com/medvedevrussiae/status/14986197503347507...

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#488

Youtube is fighting populism. The common people no longer believe anything the mighty have to say. You can see it in this reporters eyes when he gets relentlessly mocked during the trucker protests in Canada. https://twitter.com/glen_mcgregor/status/1495146891646013443 This is a path where all this censorship will lead to if they don't stop it. It will be as bad for the modern day Oligarchs as it was for the French n…

> The common people no longer believe anything the mighty have to say

Hypernormalization

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#489
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of trying to "both sides" gerrymandering, why don't you work out how many votes it takes on average for a Democrat to win an election, and how many it takes a Republican. With that information, you can infer which party has the most motivation to end gerrymandering.

There is no districts or gerrymandering at the Presidential level. It’s State wide. You could argue that the electoral system gives an advantage to smaller States because that’s true. But that’s by design to force a consensus at multiple levels. Large scale change is supposed to require multiple types of majority, not just a snap mob decision. That’s a feature, not a bug.

> There is no districts or gerrymandering at the Presidential level. It’s State wide.

You make it sound like the number of states has always been the same, and cannot change. In reality, Congress gets to decide which states to add (and which potential states to deny), and it does so with deliberate consideration of how the electoral votes would be affected.

One could even argue that states gerrymander their own electoral vote by choosing to give all their electors to the plurality winner within their state, when they could choose to assign electors proportionally instead. They don't literally draw up per-elector districts to produce this skewed result, but the result is the same as a very skilled after-the-fact gerrymander, so I think it's a reasonable comparison.

Anyway, I wasn't just talking about gerrymandering at the Presidential level. The problem exists in the individual state legislatures too (although it's hard to calculate an average across different states), and in Congress. For example, an interesting analysis[0] from 2016 found that:

> In the past four congressional elections, then, Republicans, as the party with the majority in the House, received a “seats bonus,” wherein members of their party secured a larger share of the seats in the chamber than the share of votes won nationwide.

[0] https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2016/11/22/gop-seats-b...

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much does it matter in practice ? If you personally decide to host your own blog from your house, nobody will probably come after you. If you get enough traction, you’ll need to host a whole operation that can be managed by a full staff and serve millions of views every day. There’s now in the picture one or more platform providers, and payment processing that you depend on for your income. A bunch of entities ar…

This just shows that many of the policies in China are wanted by many, probably the majority, in society there. The policies are not always used for good, but they are indeed used to stop the spread of harmful misinformation or harmful practices (eg. detox via drinking bleach). In the US, you have the right to say something, but that doesn’t mean anyone has to listen to you or have to help spread your message; if you…

More and more I have the feeling that we focus a lot on the freedom to say some political things (“the 2020 election was rigged”), and accept stuff like jail for breaking DRM or life breaking monetary amounts in penalty for copyright infringement as some benign issue we should strive to solve, but if we can’t that’s just too bad, gotta live with it.

I’m not saying I’d live in China, but I feel we’re putting too much credit in our own system. Even comparing ourselves to China doesn’t feel productive, we all have our local issues and should probably focus on solving them.

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