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Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

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Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#481

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Please do not post unsubstantive or flamebait comments here.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the guidelines more to heart, we'd be grateful. Note this one:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#482

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> Many jobs have had vaccine and testing requirements for decades and nobody lost their mind Yes, "many", not "all". Do you think we're still in "many" territory or are we trending towards "all"? The requirements changing for a job they may have had for decades is also a legitimate reason to be upset. Let's not pretend there aren't legitimate concerns here.

We're not even close to "all" territory.

> The requirements changing for a job they may have had for decades is also a legitimate reason to be upset.

People are fired all the time because their job requirements changed, or they were made redundant. Where have the mass protests been for that?

> Let's not pretend there aren't legitimate concerns here.

Some concerns are legitimate, other's are not. But occupying the nation's capitol, and assaulting people who wear masks are not a legitimate avenue to express those concerns.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#484

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> Cool, imagine if I passed a law saying donate 20% of your life savings to Trump or go to jail. Don’t worry, you aren’t forced to, by that logic. But the threat of jail is actually being forced. No on is going to jail for being unvaccinated. Are you equating finding another job to being incarcerated? > Or in a more realistic world from the past, you’d better not employ that German Jew or your business will get forci…

I respectfully maintain my disagreement and will not discuss it further.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#485

This sort of discussion never goes well, but using GoFundMe to finance occupations, especially across national borders , is an incredibly dangerous game. If a GoFundMe to harrass and harangue Ron DeSantis -- to effectively sponsor people to park outside his home and blast horns, among other things -- would he be okay with that? How about if Canadians paid millions for people to park on US interstates? Is that okay? T…

A missing piece of this is Canada's Bill C51 [1], which characterizes interference with critical infrastructure as terrorism. A significant difference between CHAZ/CHOP and these protests is the legal context. Looters bad, rah rah, but GoFundMe doesn't want to touch (legally-defined-as) terrorists with a 10 foot pole. But C51 was passed with an eye towards stopping anti-pipeline protests, and conservative Canadians loved that*. But now, they want the right to interfere with critical infrastructure as a legitimate form of protest. Should have thought of that in 2015, I guess.

[1] https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/Resear...

* though, it's worth pointing out that Trudeau was against it until he got elected, and it passed under his reign

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#486

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Take it or get fired. That is being forced for all intents and purposes. Shaq said it well: https://twitter.com/ginacarano/status/1489421001918083073

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I must say, that line about "there is no force, only consequences", it does sound a bit ludicrous, not matter when it used. When other human being A willfully inflict a consequence on other person B because of past actions of person B, I thought such consequence is commonly referred to as a "punishment", especially if A has some sort of authority or official capacity.

Like, I live in Finland. Here is an illustrative episode from what I remember from school. In Finnish case, the first world war manifested as a brutal civil war where about 1 % population died. The interwar period was characterized by political instability and sectarian violence, where it was near always people aligned with the "White" anticommunist side (victors of the civil war) doing the violence. People who publicly professed communist or socialist ideas often got roughhoused and in some incidents were killed; many times, their printing presses were burned by right-wing activists. The government turned a blind eye to these actions, but it wasn't something government orchestrated -- the actual activities were genuine "grassroots" effort from a part of populace that found any idea of communist action as totally opposed their mental image of Finnish nation, and certain democratic norms were not running very deep. (During some specific moments, the politicians were often afraid of facing a popular right-wing coup.) And granted, some of the communist action during that time was supported by the Soviet Russia and was publicly agitating for an international revolution.

However, what I am trying to say is this: Sure, a galactic alien with all the tact and deep understanding of human behavior that Lt. Commander Data possess could describe the events as "phenomena where communists faced consequences for their freely exercised speech actions because they found out their speech was wildly unpopular with some other people, without government doing censorship", but any sensible human being would recognize that there was political violence with express purpose of limiting the political speech of the left side. If you think these people had right to express their political message, it was repressed, with violence.

Now, I write about this episode of Northeast European history exactly because it is a distant analogue about any current situation anywhere in the world. But one can not pretend that if you inflict any kind of cost to other people either because they did something or because you want to change their behavior, the costs you inflict are some impersonal "consequences" which somehow makes it so that any other context of situation does not apply -- for example, your purpose for inflicting the consequences.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#487

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Really? They've attacked police and burned people's homes? Seceded? I've not been following the news much, but I haven't seen this.

They have attacked police. They have had dance parties on war memorials. They threw human shit at a home with a pride flag in the window. They assaulted people for wearing masks. Healthcare workers are now told to remove any indications that they work at a hospital for their own safety.

> Healthcare workers are now told to remove any indications that they work at a hospital for their own safety.

This seems like a really weird narrative. Why would people who are protesting vaccine mandates be against healthcare workers? They aren't the ones keeping the mandate in place. There's a tenuous connection with them being the ones to administer a vaccine if someone decides to get vaccinated but it's not like attacking a healthcare worker is going to accomplish anything. A lot of the people engaging in this protest have already been vaccinated, what's their beef with healthcare? Honestly, this just seems like spin that's aimed at creating two opposing groups.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#488

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I neither believe it is truthful to call it "occupying the nations capitol" nor am I surprised that GFM won't fund it. Regardless, your response was a non-sequitur. You really need to deal with what I actually said. To help you along, I also wouldn't be surprised for a charity to redirect 100% of its income to its executives. But that wouldn't mean I would say it was fine for them to do that, even though the reason I…

> I neither believe it is truthful to call it "occupying the nations capito

People who live in Ottawa disagree.

> To help you along, I also wouldn't be surprised for a charity to redirect 100% of its income to its executives. But that wouldn't mean I would say it was fine for them to do that, even though the reason I gave the money was for clean wells in Africa. That's what you're defending.

This is a textbook strawman. We're talking about a specific situation here, so stop trying to invoke entirely different situations to defend it.

The fact is that this has turned into an occupation. It's not reasonable to expect GFM to fund that.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#489
post #27

Also keep in mind that in the backdrop of all this is the fact that our Prime Minister has called the protesters racists and misogynists. Probably inspiring someone who ran over some protesters in Winnipeg. Canadian news and politicians are desperately trying to denounce the protesters while ignoring the fact that Canada has some of the harshest Covid restrictions in the world at the moment, while the US has hardly a…

> protesters racists and misogynists That's probably because of the Nazi and Confederate flags people are waving. In my opinion, they should cry it out or quit given Canada's 1 dose vaccination rate is in the 80% range.

The video of the confederate flag guy shows that he was shunned by the protestors.

https://twitter.com/VigilantFox/status/1487834109678395392

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#490

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They have attacked police. They have had dance parties on war memorials. They threw human shit at a home with a pride flag in the window. They assaulted people for wearing masks. Healthcare workers are now told to remove any indications that they work at a hospital for their own safety.

> Healthcare workers are now told to remove any indications that they work at a hospital for their own safety. This seems like a really weird narrative. Why would people who are protesting vaccine mandates be against healthcare workers? They aren't the ones keeping the mandate in place. There's a tenuous connection with them being the ones to administer a vaccine if someone decides to get vaccinated but it's not like…

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