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YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

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Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#481

Post by voakbasda »

ddingus wrote: post #436
rvz wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube is on the side of profit, so is now moderating its platform like the large media companies who have moved in from TV/Cable to also using YouTube. The creators and users are always last place. As I said days before, [0] it will only get worse and YouTube will not change. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29407822

One nit to pick on your otherwise fine point: Profit means playing ball with entities that can very seriously impact the enterprise. The money is great, but the cost to everyone is YT and friends doing some bidding they would otherwise want to avoid. Essentially, it's similar to the military industrial complex. Private extension of government, and big business always does this. Has to, or the real threat might be acc…

Corruption is not legal. It is simply the apparent norm that we have come to expect from our elected officials, bureaucrats, journalists, courts, police, and many other occupational classes. And when in Rome….

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#482

Post by Dma54rhs »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #432
vl wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube Shorts (TicToc competitor) is pure evil. If I accidentally click on it I can find myself two hours later after watching hundred videos I can't even remember anymore. Sure it's high engagement, but it's truly bad for user satisfaction and long-term user retention. On top of that they blatantly and prominently push their political agenda in "news" section. But I don't think there is deep evil thinking behind di…

Shorts are awesome.

But they are just tiktok content farms. Which is kinda ironic since its a Googles product.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#483

Post by crisdux »

dynm wrote: post #103
crisdux wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that is relevant to this debate. Of course they are free to make product changes. As a user I am free to dislike it and complain about it in an effort to get it to change. What do you suggest we do? Should we all just shut up? I've been a paid youtube premium member since the beginning. As well as a youtube tv subscriber. They should take user feedback seriously. But they aren't. I use youtube for ent…

I see what you're saying. Certainly, I didn't mean to imply that anyone isn't entitled to complain about it! I should have worded what I was saying differently: There are tradeoffs in having dislike counts visible. Having it will be better for some people, not having it will be better for others. So if we only have one only service that provides video to everyone, then we're stuck in a situation where one of these gr…

You seem to be coming to this debate with a very different set of assumptions. I think with a bit of creativity, YouTube could satisfy both sides. Give creators the ability to remove dislikes. They previously had that ability, but they were forced to remove likes and dislikes together if they wanted do to that.

A lot of the YouTube community is reeling from this because the harassment concern brought up by YouTube management doesn't seem legitimate. They've never proven this is a real issue that warrants such a big change. It just seems like an excuse to push an unpopular change for nefarious reasons.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#484

Post by thedrbrian »

laurent92 wrote: post #426
ddingus wrote: post #410

Of course they are! That's how this goes. Once the door is open for censorship, it all works just like lies do, and it's often associated with lies and or hurt egos, say lack of acceptance and respect, and it tends to spread, until it's ridiculous. And let's get real here: This whole mess is because the government and big media don't like being near constantly ratioed. They do have the option of improving how they wo…

If Youtube views were really upvote/downvote driven, and if democracies were really vote-driven, if we actually listened to people’s vote instead of telling them what they should think… the world would be much, much different. We would actually listen to the People. No, that’s clearly not the world we want. Bring on those “crowd shaping tools. (Edit: Removed the middle paragraph).

> if democracies were really vote-driven,

It’s interesting that let’s go Brandon has become a thing for the most popular president. Why didn’t it happen before?

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#485

Post by beerandt »

root_axis wrote: post #471
ddingus wrote: post #410

Of course they are! That's how this goes. Once the door is open for censorship, it all works just like lies do, and it's often associated with lies and or hurt egos, say lack of acceptance and respect, and it tends to spread, until it's ridiculous. And let's get real here: This whole mess is because the government and big media don't like being near constantly ratioed. They do have the option of improving how they wo…

The evidence presented in this video isn't anywhere near enough to confirm that this is actually true, yet you're already offering up speculative explanations about google's intentions as if it's all a foregone conclusion and you know exactly why. I think that's a little weird.

When it comes to censorship, I think at best it doesn't really matter why, and at worst it's fair to assume mal intent, even if it's not obvious or provable. Otherwise (and without an affirmative reason), why hide it?

That's the nature of censorship.

But especially so when the "alpha testing" is specifically done on videos of the new White House administration.

Unless you're questioning whether removing the downvotes qualifies as censorship at all. Which I would find a little weird.

What hypothetical "pure" intentions would you suggest are possibilities?

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#486

Post by arpafaucon »

busymom0 wrote: post #377
kazinator wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker news has a minimum karma requirement for downvoting; you can't just create an account (or a dozen accounts) and start downvoting something you don't like, or to harass someone with serial downvotes. You must first attract a certain number of upvotes for your comments and submissions. That fixes many of the abuse problems with downvotes. HN situations are also monitored by the site operators themselves, who int…

Am I wrong or does Stack Overflow deduct a point from your own karma if you downvote someone else?

Something a bit more complicated if I remember well. Something like: - You can down vote questions for free - but down voting answers costs you 1 karma (and encourages you to provide a proper answer instead)

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#487

Post by thedrbrian »

FjgdymdjttdjG wrote: post #253
inChargeOfIT wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cancelled my premium, unsubscribed from all my channels, and have stopped browsing YouTube (which I did daily for years). Basically, I've stopped using YouTube as a source for finding new content. If I get linked to a video from a trusted source (here, reddit, etc), then I'll watch the video, but they lost me as a member of the community.

Gotta pay the Premium, or burn 1500 mAh / hour because you can't turn your screen off without Premium. You and about 4 billion others can't afford the Google toll, so pay for electricity instead. One way or another, you will pay. Gotta get that gold. If only I could calculate the total electricity burn planet wide because 4 billion people can't turn their screens off. I wonder how a 4 billion screenburn compares to 1…

You could always side load something. Better cercube for iOS?

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#488

Post by BbzzbB »

deadmutex wrote: post #472
throwuxiytayq wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can't see it. You need to calculate it. Are you seriously suggesting that people will start doing math ?

like:dislike ratio (grandparent comment) is same math as like:view ratio (parent comment). :)

1:9 was merely an example of a video that is likely to be garbage or highly controversial (with exceptions, namely COVID & governmental videos), there was also a visual bar indicating where it sits at for people who find it hard to tell which number is larger than the other. That ratio was irrespective of engagement which is highly variable per video, creator or topic. To pretend it conveys the same amount of information is plain disingenuous for the sake of it.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#489

Post by BoorishBears »

watwut wrote: post #438
BoorishBears wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already said but people are allergic to knowing what they're talking about. They didn't remove the dislike button, they removed the count. They removed the count because they found it reduced spurious usage. That way they can use the dislike count for their algorithm ( and you can still use it for curating your content) without having it influenced by brigading. I mean they still show it to creators anyways, so…

Imo, people get endorphine hit from hitting dislike and feeling like they publically revenged. You are taking that away. There are of course also arguments there and back. But the emotional reactions are either about interests or feelings. More likely to be feelings here.

> Imo, people get endorphine hit from hitting dislike and feeling like they publically revenged. You are taking that away.

This is a wonderful case for removing it. Better than I could have ever proposed.

Youtube didn't add it for revenge and their statement on removing the dislike count shows this.

Re: YouTube deleting comments who criticize their hiding of the dislike count

#490

Post by pas »

skinkestek wrote: post #461
SquareWheel wrote: post #458

Did nobody watch the linked video? It's obvious he had comments restricted because his comment was deemed as abusive, and not because it was critical of "hiding dislikes". "That's not abusive at all", you may be thinking. But calling others names, even something as nonsensical as calling them a "handjob", can still easily fall under their terms of use. If you refer to the original video[1], people are nothing but cri…

You might very well be right and of so these are some good points, but there is a bigger theme here: Many of us who used to defend Google before now don't. Some because Reader. Some because the nymwars/Google+ (the single identity part). Some because Google shuttered Google+ after they had made it the only social network some of us ever liked. Some because Google is sucking the oxygen out of markets and then leaving.…

Google is a big boy/gal/firm, it can defend itself. And there are new fans of G who never ever heard of any of these.
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