Corded headphones are making an unexpected return • Hacker News Board

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#481

Post by derefr » Tue, Nov 16, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

hasmanean wrote: post #456

derefr wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes they will randomly disconnect during use. FYI, that's interference. Wi-fi "randomly" disconnects for a few seconds due to interference just as often, but you don't notice, because 1. the OS hides short disconnects, and 2. most protocols you use are TCP-based, and so use retries. (If you were doing something involving UDP streaming, you'd notice.) Bluetooth audio, on the other hand, is a realtime protocol,…

There is a happy medium. Wireless headphones with a short wire hanging down to use as an antenna. Now send audio using 900MHz analog FM radio. The signal quality can be made quite high by using enough power and/or bandwidth spreading. Delay is near zero and it reconnects faster than you can blink at it.

Sure, they already make those ("radio" headphones); they sell them in pairs with 900MHz transmitters, for — among other things — people who are hard-of-hearing to better hear their (old, non-Bluetooth-enabled) TVs.

But I'm pretty sure what you're really trying to mentally re-engineer here is one of these: https://en-ca.sennheiser.com/stage-monitoring-headphones-hea...

Ever wondered what's in the rack on rear center stage of a concert? One of these, so the performers can all hear the mix over their own instrument/the crowd without tripping all over cables.

(More recently, they're two-way, meaning that the e.g. electric guitar you hear is passing through a chain of: headphone pre-amp, wireless transmitter, wireless receiver, mixing board, amp. Effects pedals? These days, they're wireless MIDI controllers that signal to a DAW plugged into the mixing board!)

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#482

Post by alias_neo » Tue, Nov 16, 2021, 8:08 PM UTC

jcims wrote: post #457

alias_neo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask what you hated about the XM4s? I have a pair of XM3s and I love them (for what they are) but the form factor of the XM4 looks nicer so was considering an "upgrade".

Couple of things, both could potentially be remedied by aftermarket foam tips, I'm not sure. - Maybe I have weird ears but the bulk of their weight is up high and kind of out from the body and there's no real support other than the tip wedged into your ear canal. If you run downstairs or jog or jump it tends to make an audible 'pop' or clacking sound as the weight sort of pries against your ear canal. If you look at…

That's really interesting. I use aftermarket foam on my XM3, they fit solid and I could exercise with them in and not have them fall out (I don't use them for exercise however).

The ANC is the really interesting part, it's practically flawless in the XM3 I've never heard any of the issues you describe; which worries me that the XM4 has an issue or two, hopefully software ones that can he remedied but it doesn't sound good.

The XM3 doesn't support any sort of ear tuning, the feature in the app only applies to specific audio sources, none of which I have access to, so I can't comment on that part.

I've heard good things about the little rubber wedge in the Bose, I'd like that feature, but honestly I don't have fit issues with mine so it's not a deal breaker.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#483

Post by dylan604 » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 3:20 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #479

dylan604 wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if it's safe enough to run power to a computer, it would easily be able to handle the electrical requirments for any other connector, right? you just need an adapter. luckily, apple has you covered. you just need $19.99. /s that would be a weird idea though. 1/4 TRS female -> magsafe-male magsafe-female -> 1/4 TRS male. i'm guessing it would look like a sort of inline coupler or similar in final design. essentially,…

I recently bought a foundue set; the hotplate it comes with has a magsafe regular 110VAC wall cord (no DC adaptation) that's magsafe on the device end. I wondered why I had never seen one of these before. Then I realized that that flat device end is actually incredibly dangerous to the touch when plugged into the wall. It's just slightly less dangerous than potentially knocking over a pot of boiling cheese. For regul…

This is how every single Apple charging cords with the green/amber light in them has behaved. There's a bit of communication between device and cable before juice flows.

Did the end of the cable not have recessed "pins" specifically to avoid accidental shorting? Seems like it would never be U/L certified without some safety.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#484

Post by mecha_ghidorah » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 4:39 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #165

makecheck wrote: post #3

I have never really gotten used to wireless buds, and still find myself reaching for wires half the time: - Wireless buds don’t connect 100% reliably; sometimes I get one and not the other, or neither. Sometimes they will randomly disconnect during use. - Sometimes the sound glitches out randomly, which is so irritating that I don’t care how good the sound supposedly is the rest of the time. - Gestures and voice are…

> Sometimes they will randomly disconnect during use. FYI, that's interference. Wi-fi "randomly" disconnects for a few seconds due to interference just as often, but you don't notice, because 1. the OS hides short disconnects, and 2. most protocols you use are TCP-based, and so use retries. (If you were doing something involving UDP streaming, you'd notice.) Bluetooth audio, on the other hand, is a realtime protocol,…

> Put on your wired headphones. Sit down (e.g. on the bus.) Now try taking off your shoulder-strapped bag to hold it in your lap, without first taking out your headphones.

Well what I used to do when I had wired headphones was run the headphone cable under the bag so to speak. As in put on my headphones and then put on my bag. You just need to make sure you have enough slack in the headphones above the bag strap, which... I dunno I never found difficult. I just habitually put on my bag second, or would place my ear buds in my shirt/cups around my neck at least before putting on the bag.

Don't get me wrong it's nice for that to not matter with wireless, it's just the way you've phrased this implies to me putting the headphones on first and bag on second so the bag strap sits on top of the headphone cable never occurred to you and honestly that is confusing me

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#485

Post by xeyownt » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 5:57 AM UTC

grishka wrote: post #279

saagarjha wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until you see how Wi-Fi and cellular work.

I know how Wi-Fi works, and how it sometimes doesn't, and this is why I'm using ethernet whenever possible. Cellular operates in a much more controlled environment with more stringent certification, it's much more reliable for me than anything 2.4 GHz, but it does still get frustrating at times. The lack of requirement of a low delay also helps both wifi and cellular I guess.

Exactly. If I had to score reliability, I would give 1 to WiFi, 10 to Bluetooth, one million to cellular and ten million to cable.

It's incredible how much better cellular works compared to other wireless "techno", but nothing replaces a cable.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#486

Post by herbst » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 8:11 AM UTC

Vrondi wrote: post #475

herbst wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a pair of really good wired Sennheisers. I never owned or used Bluetooth devices for more than giving it a try. I may be audiophile. But when I put a music on I want to get fully absorbed and hear every little detail while I don't worry about battery life. Sounds weird I know

When you do try bluetooth again, try full cans from a good brand. No earbuds at all. Check which codecs the cans will use. Just cans vs earbuds makes a hug sound and comfort difference. Literally, you get larger drivers and a larger battery, so physics is already on your side vs earbuds.

I think the only wireless 'full cans' I've tried are beats which I don't like the sound profile of anyway. Also larger battery surely will decrease the comfort from its weight?

However I keep my ears open :)

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#487

Post by alleskleber » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

schmorptron wrote: post #293

alleskleber wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wired in-ear headphones are difficult to get with detachable cables. The only ones I know about are meant as in-ear monitors for musicians performing live.

Get some KZs! They're a good place to start for cheap ones with replaceable cables, I'd recommend the zsn pro or DQ6 for inexpensive ones.

Thanks, I already have the ZSN pro and they're very impressive. I'll keep the DQ6 in mind in case someone asks for a recommendation.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#488

Post by TheCapn » Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

lwkl wrote: post #364

TheCapn wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without coming across too much as an ad placement, I have to say I have virtually none of these problems with my Jaybird X2 headphones, and I think its entirely a design thing. My headphones are wired from one to the other. They're wireless to the music device, but wired to each other if that helps paint you a picture. Plus, they have these little rubber fins that help hold the headphones in your ears So for me: I ca…

I had the Jaybird X2 headphones and they always fell out with the silicon tips and the foam tips made it so I couldn't hear anything in my vicinity and they still fell out (especially while running). Also they felt kind of bad in my ears. I now have AirPod Pros and I have none of the above problems. I waited a long time before buying them and was really surprised how well they fit (because of my experience with norma…

Yeah, I can actually see that. It took me a little bit of trial and error to get mine set up the way I like them... I actually have different sized tips in the left & right ears. I guess that's just anatomy for ya.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#489

Post by derefr » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 12:22 AM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #483

derefr wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently bought a foundue set; the hotplate it comes with has a magsafe regular 110VAC wall cord (no DC adaptation) that's magsafe on the device end. I wondered why I had never seen one of these before. Then I realized that that flat device end is actually incredibly dangerous to the touch when plugged into the wall. It's just slightly less dangerous than potentially knocking over a pot of boiling cheese. For regul…

This is how every single Apple charging cords with the green/amber light in them has behaved. There's a bit of communication between device and cable before juice flows. Did the end of the cable not have recessed "pins" specifically to avoid accidental shorting? Seems like it would never be U/L certified without some safety.

> This is how every single Apple charging cords with the green/amber light in them has behaved. There's a bit of communication between device and cable before juice flows.

Yes and no. MagSafe is safe because of the sense current and the handshake; but it's able to do that because it's just not driving very much wattage through the cable; it's low enough that it can direct the power with a simple transistor.

To make mains-voltage AC cords do that, you need a lot more than a transistor. A 1500W current (from e.g. a microwave, or a kettle) can arc a gap much wider than most transistors are printed at. Which is why, in even the most modern smart-home remote light-switch doodads, mains-voltage gets toggled using relays, rather than anything solid-state.

It's lovely to say "just do what MagSafe does", but with electricity, "quantity has a quality all its own" — i.e. very different engineering challenges to overcome.

> Did the end of the cable not have recessed "pins" specifically to avoid accidental shorting?

It has recessed pins (pads, actually), but only barely (by about 5mm); basically to the point that a round metal table leg could make contact with the live pad within the recess.

And, as far as I can tell, there's no sense logic in the cable, either. No click of a relay coming from the cable when it gets connected; and no place for a transformer to live (not that it needs one—it's a hotplate, i.e. a big thick piece of iron you run mains-voltage AC current through.)

There is a relay inside the hotplate itself, which roughly acts as a thermostat (rather than a rheostat) to toggle the coil on and off to keep the cheese at temperature. You can hear it ticking on and off, and an indicator light goes on and off along with it.

But for that logic to work, the cable has to be drawing power to power it. So, AFIACT, the cable itself is always live.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#490

Post by p1esk » Thu, Nov 18, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #478

mkl wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put the slack in your pocket.

1/8" cabling could be wound into your pocket, yes—especially the thin-cored crap that most earbuds are made of. But at that point, are you gaining anything in audio quality by using wired headphones over Bluetooth headphones? When I picture "preferring wired headphones", I picture taking around my studio monitors with their 10ft 1/4" solid-copper-cored cabling. (I did used to do pretty much this, when I was a stupid…

are you gaining anything in audio quality

What makes you think you’re gaining anything in audio quality by using 1/4” instead of 1/8” cable?