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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#481

Post by chitowneats »

peakaboo wrote: post #463
chitowneats wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have no problem with vaccine mandates if they were instead immunity mandates. Some people, like many in my family, spent a year and half exposing themselves to keep the electricity running, food packaged, delivered, fulfillment warehouses running, etc. Seems very strange that in the U.S. these people, most of whom are young (which means they are at lower risk from covid but higher risk from vax complications…

This thing was never about protecting people. Thats why it doesn't make sense to you. These health passes will later be called citizen passes or similar, and you won't be able to do any activity without them. And if you are a difficult person with opinions about this, you will get flagged as a security risk and unable to use that citizen pass. People think I'm joking and it will never happen. But I believe that's exa…

I never said I was confused in my comment. Reasonable people can disagree about the necessity of vaccines for every single human. I'm making the case it is not necessary and that it is unethical. I could have gone into how these vaccines would be much more useful given to at-risk populations throughout the world instead of low risk, largely already immune young populations in the West. That's another good angle of this.

All that being said, I don't think scare mongering about social credit systems is helpful in this discussion. Most I've talked to who support vax pass are resolutely opposed to China-style social credit systems and I believe such a system would be difficult to implement in the U.S.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#482

Post by nanis »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #461
albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

> Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days I saw some conspiracy theory that said this weeks ago and just shook my head at how ridiculous that would be. At least it seemed like a conspiracy theory because my view of control group was apparently something else. Emergency use authorization, for a vaccine that was never tested on humans, and both Pfizer and Moderna eliminated the control groups? What the hell!…

> I saw some conspiracy theory ...

What conspiracy theory?

StatNews[1]:

> Pfizer and BioNTech speed up timeline for offering Covid-19 vaccine to placebo volunteers

> Pfizer and its partner BioNTech plan to offer their Covid-19 vaccine to any clinical trial volunteer who received placebo by March 1, several months earlier than initially planned.

and NPR[2]:

> Long-Term Studies Of COVID-19 Vaccines Hurt By Placebo Recipients Getting Immunized

> Tens of thousands of people who volunteered to be in studies of the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines are still participating in follow-up research. But some key questions won't be easily answered, because many people who had been in the placebo group have now opted to take the vaccine.

[1]: https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/01/pfizer-and-biontech-spee...

[2]: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#483

Post by xTaGnxK »

acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

You could pivot to many things, for example this FDA approved drug that was later retracted:

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/postmarket-drug-safety-information...

Or point out that the 737 MAX had approval from another federal agency.

We simple can't be sure, it is personal risk management. Requiring the vaccine is silly because vaccinated people can still spread it (especially Delta), perhaps even spread it more since their symptoms aren't as severe and they are far more willing to mix with large crowds.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#484

Post by freeopinion »

NineStarPoint wrote: post #244
peakaboo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if true, so what? It's their bodies. They should be allowed to choose, just like you are.

Because in cases like this, the choice they’re making with their body can be directly responsible for the hospitalization and death of other people in their vicinity. Vaccines aren’t fool proof, every person who doesn’t take the vaccine is an increased chance for those who did take the vaccine to get exposed to a breakthrough case. I know I wouldn’t want to work in person at any place that didn’t have a vaccine manda…

> I’m very much in support of it being hard to be a part of society if you refuse to take one of the most basic steps to protect other people in it

Flu vaccine? Smoking cessation? Hand washing? Race/gender/religion sensitivity training?

These seem like pretty basic steps. Should we bar entrance to society based on these?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#485

Post by DangerousPie »

albatross13 wrote: post #430
acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context.

It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent them from getting vaccinated when we know that some of them might die without the vaccine.

And Pfizer doesn't "make" 1.9b of 100m doses. They might have 1.9b in revenue but producing the vaccines isn't free. And 1.9b is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the savings we have already seen thanks to the vaccine.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#486

Post by hall0ween »

b0tzzzzzzman wrote: post #418

Hacker news is turning into Reddit style comments section. Can we talk about natural immunity and the path forward?

Can you point to any papers demonstrating natural immunity? I ask as my virologist friend, working on covid-related projects, says to me that it hasn't been shown to be plausible. Which, intuitively, makes sense because of (1) the positive effects vaccines have on reducing severity of the disease and (2) the cycle of variants we see and its path forward.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#487

Post by jesusohchrist »

xyzzyz wrote: post #209
antattack wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Even if true, so what? It's their bodies. They should be allowed to choose, just like you are." Is this still true if unvaccinated takes a hospital bed away from someone else or increases insurance costs to everyone else due to more expensive care?

Replacing “unvaccinated” with “obese” here gives an argument for forcing obese people on diet against their will.

Mandatory gym memberships and no sugar would end the pandemic probably faster

Edit:

Obesity source: 1. https://www.axios.com/bmi-obesity-severe-risk-factors-covid-...

2. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughl...

BaSeLeSs BrO ScIeNcE

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#488

Post by Buttons840 »

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #230
jerf wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"By looking at other vaccines historically and seeing that side effects tend to happen in the first few weeks." "Other vaccines historically" work on fundamentally different principles. We can not use that data to assume that mRNA vaccines are going to work the same way.

For the record, I volunteered for a COVID vaccine trial. "mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans since 2011" So barely 10 years. A study on a dozen or so participants, all white, college aged men with largely identical diets. I guarantee you that not one participant in the 2011 study was pregnant. (Btw, I looked at your reference. A Bush era press release was less manipulative. There wasn't a single peer-reviewed r…

Do you believe it's possible for a sufficiently advanced society (think Star Trek) to develop a vaccine for a novel virus in a short period of time? What do you think this would look like?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#489

Post by peakaboo »

dfxm12 wrote: post #391
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

What type of responses did you get? I agree, engaging people is a good way to go. I don't know any anti-vaxxers personally, so I have to actively work to remind myself they might not all have the same reasons as the ones I know impersonally (who all happen to be full of misinfo, like Eric Clapton, et al.). There are no silver bullets that lead to peace and harmony, obviously, but a greater understanding of each other…

Hi nice you meet you. Im not going to take the covid vaccine so guess I'm an anti-vaxxer. I'm also an anti-smoker, anti-badfooder, and anti - crime kind of person.

I've been living normally without lockdowns or masks for about 18 months now. So has the rest of my country Sweden. So excuse me if I'm not running around fearing for my life anymore. I'm pretty much convinced we all have natural antibodies by now.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#490

Post by DangerousPie »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #461
albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

> Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days I saw some conspiracy theory that said this weeks ago and just shook my head at how ridiculous that would be. At least it seemed like a conspiracy theory because my view of control group was apparently something else. Emergency use authorization, for a vaccine that was never tested on humans, and both Pfizer and Moderna eliminated the control groups? What the hell!…

You can't force people not to get vaccinated for several years in the middle of a pandemic.
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