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American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

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Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#481

Post by horsawlarway »

iammisc wrote: post #474
horsawlarway wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again - correct but misguided in the general sense. > It is the same reason the word for 'dog' in English is taught as being spelled D-O-G. There is no why behind it. I agree with you completely, but I think you're guilty of speaking the wrong language in response to the question (and it would behoove you to consider it from the perspective of someone outside the field). The question "Why" in maths almost always gets…

You are correct, but this explanation is cultural and sociological, not logical. We must motivate math, absolutely. And to do so in my opinion starts with socratic questioning. You must convince the student that such an inquiry is even worthwhile. One thing I'll point out is that we're not just seeing this in math. We see it in every field. More and more kids every year are insisting ( and their teachers are agreeing…

Sure, but we're in a thread talking about why some folks are choosing to send kids to "Russian" style maths teachers.

The whole discussion is from the perspective of the cultural and sociological.

---

As an aside, I generally agree with you about american schooling. I think it's less a concerted effort, and more a sad reality of the fact that modern schools have essentially become federally funded child care in the US.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#482

Post by starkd »

chrisseaton wrote: post #480
starkd wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many in teachers' unions don't want to be rated on how badly public schools are doing. It's not all the fault of teachers, granted, but incentives of the union here is not always aligned with the students. Many don't want to hear it, but it needs to be said as a factor. There are a lot of these initiatives - like Russian math - popping up serving as test cases for how to teach subjects. I think online programs are in…

> incentives of the union here is not always aligned with the students I don't know why this would surprise anyone. The union represents the teachers. It absolutely doesn't represent the students - none of them are members! As far as a rational teaching union is concerned, the government, the general public, schools, parents, and students, are all the enemy.

I hate to think that about a teachers, but it sure looks that way.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#483

Post by MarkLowenstein »

lvl100 wrote: post #211

This notion that “American” math and sciences lag behind the world is one of the greatest lies ever told in my lifetime. And for the record, there is no “Russian” math or “Chinese” math. Mathematics is mathematics. Where the US approach differs is that they are not requiring high level of math on general public. However, if you are gifted and/or motivated, you have access to unparalleled resources.

It is hard to believe any American feels the need to supplement the existing in-school lessons with after-school paid programs like Russian math or Kumon.

In the last 10 years nearly every school has adopted the Common Core curriculum, which is the product of the latest findings in educational methodology research, developed by Ed.D. luminaries like Dr. Jill Biden, and promoted by successful industrialists like Bill Gates.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#484

Post by filoleg »

mantas wrote: post #479
filoleg wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Overall both class and teachers didn’t like memorizers. On the other hand, it was possible to pass pretty well by memorizing. Sometimes teachers would put in random bits in tests to throw off memorizers. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. All in all, memorizing and actual learning lived side by side. I find it hard to believe, given my personal experiences and the fact that having to memorize a poem or a shor…

We had those literature assignments as well. But in 12 years that happened a couple times most. Now don't get me started on literature writing assignment that are strongly advised to start in certain ways and it's best to just memorise the beginning off examples and just change few words....

Interesting to hear about an experience that's pretty much the same as mine, but rebalanced differently.

For us, writing was the same way as yours ("strongly advised to start in certain ways and it's best to just memorise the beginning off examples and just change few words"), but it only happened a few times at most, and more towards the latter years, while reciting stuff in lit classes was the norm the entire time.

And now I am starting to recall another type of assignments going until late middle school, where we had to write passages from textbooks in cursive in our "homework notebooks", mostly with small changes. Like "here is this 1000 word passage in the textbook written from the first perspective, rewrite it from the third perspective in pen". Made a typo? Well, restart, because while a couple of edits won't take much off your final score, any more than that makes a full restart a more worthy option (because it was required to use pen for those instead of a pencil; more diligent students who didn't wanna bet on getting it right on the first try, they did it first with a pencil and then traced it and erased the pencil). Another evening spent rewriting the same dull passage multiple times by hand in pen.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#485

Post by iammisc »

tsukikage wrote: post #185
fallingknife wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goals are different. The goal of the Russian school is to teach math. The goal of public schools is to dumb down the curriculum until everyone is equal.

That's an interesting take, since the Russian school's teaching methods originate in Soviet public schools. If that's the difference, why were the goals so different there, and how do we make US public school goals more like the Soviet ones?

The soviets were nationalists who believed the utility of the citizenry was in their contribution to their country.

You reinstill love of country, which really means love of society and others, which is another word for philanthropy, and you will quickly get this.

In America, instead of education and work being for the greater purpose of your nation and people, education is for the individual.

As usual, most people find more motivation when helping others than themselves, but the focus on ourselves in American education means it's easy to slack.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#486

Post by arstarstarst »

credit_guy wrote: post #224
andi999 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the second question. Probably the kid is supposed to see the 'trick' :he drank a full cup of coffee since he didn't refill coffee and drank all. He added 1/2, 1/3 and 1/6 of a cup of milk and drank it all, so (3+2+1)/6=1. He drank the same amount of coffee and milk. I think it is ok as a brain teaser, but there will probably be one kid in the class to see it and all the other kids feel dumb or whatever.…

K-1 means Kindergarten and 1st grade, so 5 year olds and 6 year olds. In the US earlier grades than that are called PK-3 (pre-Kindergarten and 3 year old) and PK-4. I don't think RSM has classes for these levels.

Correct, they don't have pre-school classes. I attended RSM as a student, and even taught there.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#487

Post by avmich »

iammisc wrote: post #457
zsmi wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to suffer from the lack of "why" too until one day it dawned on me that there really isn't a why, or maybe, the why is always the same: for engineers doing classical physics solving problems by hand, it's convenient to define it that way. No more, no less. When I was a math tutor in school, everyone would complain about lack of why. This was my approach to address the issue. I would describe a problem relevant…

The problem with asking teachers to think on the spot is that teachers in America are especially dumb: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliewexler/2019/03/13/why-so... My mother was a public school teacher. She passed her test on the first try, which was extremely rare at her school. She was taught in India, and became an American teacher as an older woman. She was an outlier. She graduated from a major public teachin…

So the haves spend money on education of their kids, and have-nots can't do that, relying on public schools which don't perform, and the possibilities gap is widening. Structural problem.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#488

Post by iammisc »

s5300 wrote: post #75
ardit33 wrote: post #7

My sister sent my niece to one, as even her 'private' middle school in Newton, MA, was just not strong enough. She did sign up my niece in every summer class she could, without overloading her. It was always my nieces' choice, and half the time she choose arts and half science. Now, my niece is able to do college entry level data science classes (she is about to become a Junior in HighSchool), and she actually likes…

>Extreme progressive Liberals are killing science and progress in this country, There is literally a major political party in the US that parrots science to be fake & that religion/faith in god is all that matters. Also, that "progress" (in a technological/scientific sense) is a bad thing Last I checked, it was not the progressives that identify with this line of thinking. Come on.

The mainstream republican party does not say any of those things. You are taking fringe positions and making them emblematic of the party.

On the other hand, the democratic party openly and literally claims there is no distinction between male and female.

There are dumb policy positions all over the board. No one denies science as a whole. Everyone picks and chooses.

Consider my state of Oregon... they're literally removing the ability to do math and read as graduation requirements and the GOP minority is left asking 'why'? How can you honestly make the claim the democratic party is uniquely the party of science

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#489

Post by iammisc »

horsawlarway wrote: post #481
iammisc wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct, but this explanation is cultural and sociological, not logical. We must motivate math, absolutely. And to do so in my opinion starts with socratic questioning. You must convince the student that such an inquiry is even worthwhile. One thing I'll point out is that we're not just seeing this in math. We see it in every field. More and more kids every year are insisting ( and their teachers are agreeing…

Sure, but we're in a thread talking about why some folks are choosing to send kids to "Russian" style maths teachers. The whole discussion is from the perspective of the cultural and sociological. --- As an aside, I generally agree with you about american schooling. I think it's less a concerted effort, and more a sad reality of the fact that modern schools have essentially become federally funded child care in the U…

> federally funded child care in the US.

Indeed... As my mother was told by her principal in her inner city school for poor minority kids... "We're just here to watch them until they go to prison".

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#490

Post by iammisc »

avmich wrote: post #487
iammisc wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with asking teachers to think on the spot is that teachers in America are especially dumb: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliewexler/2019/03/13/why-so... My mother was a public school teacher. She passed her test on the first try, which was extremely rare at her school. She was taught in India, and became an American teacher as an older woman. She was an outlier. She graduated from a major public teachin…

So the haves spend money on education of their kids, and have-nots can't do that, relying on public schools which don't perform, and the possibilities gap is widening. Structural problem.

Absolutely! A major structural problem.
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