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How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to Work Hard

#481

Post by rakhodorkovsky »

mapgrep wrote: post #471

> I had to learn what real work was before I could wholeheartedly desire to do it. That took a while, because even in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless. In other words, "the work I want to do is real but the work you want to do is trivial and pointless." I really genuinely have enjoyed Paul Graham's writing over the years but moments like this seem arrogant and te…

Perhaps arrogance should be added to what it takes to be successful.

I'm only half joking; I do think a certain kind of arrogance is conducive to success. Not the kind that screams insecurity and turns off your teammates, rather the kind that goes: "Perhaps I really am the first person who can do this." and then does it.

Re: How to Work Hard

#482

Post by dang »

zz865 wrote: post #479

Does PG ever spend time with his children? I always feel I should be working harder which makes spending time with family difficult.

He is an extremely dedicated father. Much of his Twitter feed is about things he does with his children.

Re: How to Work Hard

#483

Post by gmadsen »

bluedino wrote: post #466
gmadsen wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to conflict with the preface that you are constantly learning and improving, which should include changing jobs when you have become stagnant. you can make absurd money working in finance with java programming.

What happens when 'everyone works hard'? Sure, the people doing trading algorithms will make money but not the people doing CRUD apps.

the ability to work hard(defined as continuous focus, improvement, work ethic) with reasonable intelligence as a trait follows a Gaussian. I am not going to sugar coat the fact that that will naturally create a hierarchy of success

Re: How to Work Hard

#484

Post by csomar »

bradlys wrote: post #457
csomar wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when I have the money to travel in style and not backpack around and stay at hostels I think that's where you went wrong. The backpacking at hostels is the best (as long as you pick hostels and fellow travelers that do not look like your typical backpacker haha). The thing is, now that I'm 30, I feel it's probably out of fashion. But these nights I spent in big-city hostels had the most fun, stories and affairs. >…

> You can do both. The thing is, you can backpack 1 month per year and still work really HARD for 11 months of the year. 1 month is enough to visit 3-4 countries, and have 20 something night out. Over 15 years, that's over 300 night out. Way too much. And you still worked very hard for most of your youth. Wat. 300 nights over 15 years is way too much ? That is utterly insane to me. That means on average, you only wen…

> Wat. 300 nights over 15 years is way too much? That is utterly insane to me. That means on average, you only went out 1 night every 2 weeks. If you had kids, I'd understand but for someone in their youth - that is nearly shut-in status.

I think we need to agree on what's a night out. If you come back at home around 3AM and sleep at 5AM; I find it hard that you can work the next morning and keep at it everyday. It's possible to do that at weekends, but then you probably have errands to run at that. A month in another country avoids any onshore errands and also brings adventure.

Sure you can go out every-night for 1-2 hours at your local pub/coffee. But these hardly bring any adventure or novelty; they are just part of the routine and honestly now, I couldn't care less about them. They are forgettable events: irrelevant. I'd rather be doing interesting work, or just sit down in front of Netflix.

Re: How to Work Hard

#485

Post by caymanjim »

helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

I'm closer to retirement age than the beginning of my career. Some of my age peer friends are already retired, and many of them could be if they wanted to. It's not even on the radar for me. I'm a bit envious, as I'd love the freedom to be done for life, and to be able to take or leave work as I please.

The flipside is that I've taken a lot of time off along the way. I've taken whole years off between many jobs, I've traveled a lot, and I've spent a lot of time just doing nothing. I have some minor regrets about not making better use of my time between jobs, but I don't have regrets about taking the time off. I would have gone insane if I had worked nonstop for 20-30 years, only taking a couple weeks of vacation a year.

If I were really passionate about the work--especially if I'd launched my own business--I might not have felt burnt out or wanted time off. But I never wanted to bust my ass just for the sake of working hard, or for some nebulous future goal (although that future is now my present). If health or something else prevents me from enjoying life as much in the future, at least I've got memories of the past.

Re: How to Work Hard

#486

Post by iancmceachern »

nonbirithm wrote: post #414
helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

I feel the same. I can hardly sit through an entire two-hour movie or play a video game without feeling like I should be doing something else. I cannot feel good about myself if I cannot sense that I'm making progress learning a skill, and am stuck for hours looking down at a blank page as a result. But what's dangerous for me is that this alarm system does not trigger consistently. I might spend too much time on HN,…

Me too. I've been actively working to do the opposite. To build my outside of work life, give it priority and give myself the permission to have it be the main focus of life and stop running from the bear all the time.

Re: How to Work Hard

#487

Post by MarcelOlsz »

I worked hard in my 20's with nothing to show for it. Not born into connections or money. I know almost nobody that has a degree. Spent years on my own startup with my ex-ceo being a code monkey for him whos richer and more connected than me. Poof, 4 years of income and work gone. Now I can't even find a job. How exactly, am I supposed to "work hard"? It is a complete meme. Also funny he uses Gates as an example, a man born into wealth.

I tried working hard and wasted 100% of every day of my 20's. No memories formed, no money made, just "working hard".

Here's how you work hard: grow up in a stable life with money and connections and win the mental health lottery.

Re: How to Work Hard

#488

Post by AnimalMuppet »

mapgrep wrote: post #471

> I had to learn what real work was before I could wholeheartedly desire to do it. That took a while, because even in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless. In other words, "the work I want to do is real but the work you want to do is trivial and pointless." I really genuinely have enjoyed Paul Graham's writing over the years but moments like this seem arrogant and te…

I think your reading is not just uncharitable, but wrong.

> In other words, "the work I want to do is real but the work you want to do is trivial and pointless."

No, "the work you want me to do is trivial and pointless". And the context is college, and even more so high school. It's not a news flash that the work they want you to do in school isn't "real". It's exercises designed to teach you, not actual work that needs done.

> Similarly, while many English lit majors may end up contributing little most of us find valuable in that field, there are some who will become authors who genuinely help other humans find more meaning in life and feel less alone, and others who will shed new light on history and thiis contribute to the understanding of our present.

Given that Wodehouse was one of PG's positive examples, this also seems to me to be missing the point of the essay.

Re: How to Work Hard

#489

Post by mjfl »

asauce wrote: post #439
mjfl wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t read a book by reading the first 10 pages. You don’t learn a culture by visiting a place for a week. You don’t make real friends in a weekend. I’ve lived in Los Angeles for 4 years and I still feel like I don’t quite understand the culture here, feel like I haven’t quite experienced the city. I don’t understand how anyone could visit here on a vacation and think they’ve really “experienced” LA. This is even…

I don't mean to come across as rude, but maybe the LA influencer culture has you jaded? I can guarantee that not everyone wants to travel the world just for some instagram photos. I do agree with some of your main points. You can't learn a culture in a week, and "helping" poor people for an instagram post is definitely problematic. However being exposed to the different types of cultures around the world can be extre…

LA is not influencer culture. It’s first and second gen Latino immigrants. It’s Armenians. It’s white Protestants from OC. It’s a major industrial port. It’s a real estate scam. And yes, the entertainment business is here. Thinking that LA is it’s influencer culture is SO SHALLOW.

Re: How to Work Hard

#490

Post by mumblemumble »

helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

Every personality has its problematic characteristics. I think that one of the more problematic, even toxic, ones shared by many Type A personalities is a need to try and make other people feel bad for not themselves being sufficiently neurotic.

(I realize the Type A/Type B personality theory is largely crap. I'm just using it here as a useful shorthand that many people will recognize.)

That paragraph the quote came from makes me feel kind of sad. It prompted me to mentally re-frame PG's life, not as one that is defined by material success, but one that is defined by near constant anxiety. The material success is apparently just a by-product of that anxiety.

On the other hand, at least he gets to have some excess material comfort to take the edge off a bit? I imagine things would be much harder for him if he had fallen into the presumable silent majority of people sharing the same kinds of productivity-oriented anxieties who haven't been so lucky in their business dealings.

On the other hand, maybe it doesn't work that way. Maybe it just raises the bar, so that your future accomplishments have to be even more spectacular before you're able to see them as genuine accomplishments. Which sounds to me like a bleak existence. A bit like that of an addict who's forever chasing the dragon.

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