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I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

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Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#481

Post by vkou »

MattGaiser wrote: post #23

> Furthermore, if you really want a C++ developer you can just expect a developer to learn C++ on the job if they have any adjacent experience with any other language. Is this really accurate? C++ is a very different language than even Java, not to mention Python or JS. Languages have their own quirks and attributes that often matter at some point. Especially C++. I am on a team where we are constantly building stuff…

The problem with C++ is that every firm has their own flavour of C++ that they use.

Someone experienced in C++ will be able to pick it up a lot faster than someone transitioning from the Java world, but there's always going to be a fair learning curve for a new hire.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#482

Post by aoleinik »

taotau wrote: post #226

I've always found the focus on 'languages' in hiring to be a bit odd, and perhaps a hangover from olden times. Any programmer with enough experience can become competent in any programming dialect fairly quickly. But it's the level of knowledge of specific frameworks relevant to projects that is what we really should be a measure of competence. Having gone through the job hunting process recently i did find this a bi…

While I believe this is true for most “high level languages” (JS, TS, Java, Python etc.) I think when you’re doing low level languages like Rust and C/C++ you really need to hire for those languages

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#483

Post by brundolf »

dorgo wrote: post #447
brundolf wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to this, I think even a little bit of genuine esoterica is okay in an interview process so long as: 1) You're looking for someone with deep knowledge of that subject 2) You don't treat it as an automatic fail when they get it wrong If I'm interviewing for a senior role, and I ask them a few super obscure questions about the language/framework/platform I need them to be an expert on, that serves as a litmus tes…

({}) + 12 evaluates to "[object Object]12" omg, I need to learn / start using typescript

You're right! Though the original question - '{} + 12' - is extra tricky and actually evaluates to 12 ;) I'll leave figuring out why as an exercise for the reader

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#484

Post by alanwreath »

sen wrote: post #260
bee_rider wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it is possible that the recruiter said something like "ah, damn" which would be unprofessional of course, but seems in the general range not-completely-absurd human reactions.

I just recently had someone ask me not to curse when I said “ah, damn” in relation to some trivial thing (from memory I was just expressing disappointment that a project wasn’t going ahead, or part of a project). It’s the first time in my life I’ve ever met someone (over 10yrs old) who considered “damn” to be cursing but apparently they do exist.

It is informal speech. Some people choose to use informal speech in work environments. Others believe it to be inappropriate. I'm in the latter camp but I don't push my language preferences on others - just as I don't push my coding style. So now you've met two people, but in reality you probably are familiar with many more who are silent.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#485

Post by bradlys »

_2d30 wrote: post #52
speeder wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you accept non-US people, tell me what company you work for so I can send my resume. Because all the issues the guy pointed out I am on receiving end of them right now. And although I've been in leadership roles before and started programming when I was 6 years old (my dad taught me), I started lately to see if sending my applications to junior developer roles will get me any replies (people don't even tell me the…

I'm pseudonymous for a reason but here's a list of companies, none of which I am employed at, that have similar pay and issues with staffing: Uber, Doordash, Asana, AirBnB, Pinterest, LinkedIn and literally so many more. Especially if you are willing to accept mature but not yet liquid equity and then there's Stripe, Airtable, Robinhood and so many more. Post your resume. Tried to go to your personal website but it w…

I’ve interviewed with many of those listed. They’re not struggling for talent. They all have a very high hiring bar. I’ve seen them reject many people (besides myself) on trivia and whether or not you studied the right set of problems on LC.

For instance, could you regurgitate topological sort out in less than 20 minutes to solve a problem? You forgot the implementation but generally know what it’s used for? Failure. You’re a failure. Even if you know how to solve the problems but get tripped up on some simple parts of the algorithm because you haven’t really studied or used it in years, failure. Same with system design type interviews and other stuff.

The bar is very high for people who will never use any of that work. It’s hazing.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#486

Post by yoyonamite »

josephg wrote: post #476
yoyonamite wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the placement rate for the candidates that you put forward? Based on your statements, I would expect this number to be very high, but from my understanding of the industry, including recruitment companies that do technical assessments, I would be surprised if it was that high.

Sorry, but I won’t / can’t answer that.

TripleBytes' placement rate was 40% in 2018 [https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/28/triplebyte-has-raised-more...]

I'm not sure how to reconcile a recruiting company well-known for doing rigorous technical screening having a 40% placement rate, most candidates being a clear yes or a clear no, the hiring process being completely fine, and the hiring process not producing many false negatives.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#487

Post by pedrosorio »

ditonal wrote: post #182
dasil003 wrote: post #110

Hard to take this seriously with all the straw men and broad generalizations. Reality check: there has never been a hotter seller's market for software engineering talent. The fact that you have not landed a job does not mean that supply is not short in general. Rather than blowing your stack at some recruiter who you heard on a podcast interview, you might want to reflect on yourself and how you might be coming off…

It's basically both. When I graduated with my CS degree, I was _thrilled_ to be offered 50k. Now new grads feel lowballed at 200k TC. So hard not to say that the market hasn't adjusted somewhat. At the same time, part of the reason companies even have to pay so much is because they've made interviewing so damn hard. I personally know many people at great companies like Google and Twitter who are _desperate_ to change…

“ I personally know many people at great companies like Google and Twitter who are _desperate_ to change, but they are too afraid to interview. They feel they got lucky and got through the process once and are unlikely to be able to repeat it”

Is this just a perception issue or have they actually tried interviewing a few times with negative results?

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#488

Post by machello13 »

015a wrote: post #73
Tossrock wrote: post #20

> The general rudeness is ridiculous. I once had an interviewer ask me if I was a wizard with GO, C++, Rust, and C over the phone. Then when I said I had some experience with rust, he immediately cursed at me and hung up. > This experience is fairly common. Is it? I've done a fair bit of interviewing on both sides of the table, and can say with complete honesty I've never heard a curse said in anger in any of them. I…

I once, 30 minutes into what was supposed to be a 1 or 2 hour phone interview, had an engineer at Google cut me off in the middle of their standard "write code in a Google Doc" with a "oh, I have a meeting I have to run to, good work we'll get back to you." I assume it was not, in fact, good work, as I did not progress to the next interview. I think a phrase like "typical" would be inaccurate; possibly "common" as we…

I think cutting off an interview is fine if it's clear that it's not going to work out. It saves everyone's time. Maybe he could have been less rude about it.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#489

Post by machello13 »

trinovantes wrote: post #243
jmknoll wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat relevantly, a closure isn't a "specific thing in a specific framework." Its a concept that exists in many languages, and has no real relation to frameworks. I would never treat someone like they're stupid in an interview, but being completely unfamiliar with common programming concepts and treating them as irrelevant or trivial things is definitely a red flag.

The person may know what is and how to use it without knowing its formal definition in programming language theory. I personally find interview questions that ask you to regurgitate definitions like an exam to be poor indicators of real world skills. It would better if the interviewer first established terminology to avoid confusion and then ask how they would use such language constructs

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone applying for an engineering role to know the technical terminology of their field. Especially if they've been "programming for many years" as this person has.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#490

Post by bmn__ »

namdnay wrote: post #352
JAlexoid wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely grilled me... It's just that they actually had humans talk to me and answer questions, not just throw a website with an automated judge and intentionally confusing problems. (My first language isn't English) Facebook was very robotic in their process, with a lot of demands for preparation. Google and Amazon aren't that far off.

> just throw a website with an automated judge and intentionally confusing problems Who did that??? Never heard of automated tests

Amazon did: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13076821
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