$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin • Hacker News Board

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#481

Post by roca » Fri, May 14, 2021, 1:32 AM UTC

api wrote: post #354

onion2k wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX wins lots of space contracts with the help of Musk's "Occupy Mars" marketing. Tesla sells lots of cars on the promise of self-driving in the marketing. Musk bought BTC, single-handedly pumped the price of BTC, and then sold at a huge profit. I don't think he's a genius but Musk is definitely not stupid. He's just not playing the obvious game you think he's playing.

While I really dislike some of his behavior, this goal post moving to try to deny Musk credit for what he's accomplished annoys me. Before Musk we had no economical reusable launch systems, economical space flight was sci-fi, and in the 2000s there were many people who thought modern civilization must inevitably grind to a halt as we deplete oil because oil is absolutely irreplaceable for modern transport. SpaceX bui…

SpaceX is excellent.

EVs would have happened without Tesla. The "kick in the ass" is the same thing that has driven all other emissions improvements: government regulation.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Post by martimarkov » Fri, May 14, 2021, 1:33 AM UTC

fastball wrote: post #270

wffurr wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The law" gives public health officials authority to issue those "edicts". Try taking them to court and see how far that gets you. Hint: not very.

Well, given how nobody was prosecuted, taking it to court seems unnecessary, which was my point.

Not being prosecuted is not the same as not guilty.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Post by _7fvc » Fri, May 14, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

Elon Musk will learn that Bitcoin is difficult to control. He seems pretty confused about the market. My guess is Elon has been using Dogecoin to reign in Bitcoin. He's somewhat got what he wanted. Bitcoin has been stagnant for a few months. However, his promotion of Dogecoin pumps other crypto, like Ethereum and their meme tokens. Elon Musk probably didn't expect this. Promoting Dogecoin doesn't directly hurt Bitcoin. It strengthens other altcoins. At some point, it'll hurt Dogecoin.

Bitcoin is shaking Elon Musk off. It has a history of sending thought leaders to the trash bin.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Post by roca » Fri, May 14, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

King-Aaron wrote: post #446

TchoBeer wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you don't count the Chrysler TEVan, the Ford Ranger EV, the honda ev plus, the Toyota RAV4 EV... also, if you ask me, a super expensive sports car should still count as a "gimmick". I give Tesla credit for reigniting excitement about EVs, but lets not oversell their achievement.

> Chrysler TEVa The what? > the Ford Ranger EV The what? > honda ev plus The what? > Toyota RAV4 EV The what? If you mention Tesla to literally anyone, they know about the cars. The product, and the marketing of it, have definitely brought EV's into the mainstream. Before that, very few consumers knew anything about EVs, maybe with the exception of the GM EV1. Now electric cars are a common sight on the road.

I don't think anyone denies Musk is a marketing genius.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Post by martimarkov » Fri, May 14, 2021, 1:36 AM UTC

akouri wrote: post #412

pkulak wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And denying covid kept workers in his factory, against the law. I think there needs to be some rule in discussion that as soon as you start arguing over if someone is dumb or evil, you have to stop. It's impossible to figure out which (or what mix) it actually is.

Tesla would have been dead if he had not brought the Fremont factory back online. I give him credit for this, as I think ignoring the “rules” was one of the smartest business moves ever made in 2020.

Would you think the same way if it was your life on the line? Not livelihood. Live.

I think when evaluating situations compassion for people's lives is a more important matter than economical wellbeing. (Even if it's their wellbeing)

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Post by SavantIdiot » Fri, May 14, 2021, 1:38 AM UTC

jakeva wrote: post #470

TchoBeer wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>NASA own evaluation showed that the 300M SpaceX spend on the initial Falcon 9 would have cost 3 billion if done by the government. interesting, can you cite that?

This is the citation used by Wikipedia https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/586023main_8-3-11_NAFCOM.pdf

3x more expensive (0.44B vs 1.2B) for NASA to do it. Slide #3 states NASA did not perform a detailed analysis of the estimates, but NASA concluded the number of employees, layers of management, and infrastructure were the key differences. And slide 6 almost sounds like NASA is saying "NASA shouldn't do this." Makes sense. They should use their budget and more comprehensiive oversight for zanier stuff, IMHO. Speaking of oversight, I also doubt SpaceX will be grilled anywhere near as severely as NASA when a death does occur, Elon has been upfront that this is risky stuff.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Post by izolate » Fri, May 14, 2021, 1:39 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #420

plebianRube wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of work keeps the network fair. Non mining nodes have the final say. Proof of stake lets players with the most money have the most say.

>Proof of stake lets players with the most money have the most say. Okay, and what do you think the mining equipment is acquired with exactly?

It's the non-mining nodes that verify transactions and have the final say, and those can be run on home devices by regular people. That's the difference.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Post by schoen » Fri, May 14, 2021, 1:40 AM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #459

deevolution wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not much different from the current fiat monetary regime. Those closest to the money spigot benefit the most... cryptocurrency opens it up to individuals rather than limiting it to governments.

I've always wondered why people say crypto isn't a "fiat currency." It only has value because some people say it does. And it doesn't have an Army, Navy, and Air Force to defend it, like the U.S. Dollar has.

Presumably the fiat part comes from the power to create legal tender laws or the power to collect taxes denominated in a currency, or both. Cryptocurrencies don't have either of those powers.

That is, a fiat currency's value isn't based only on objective or subjective/speculative value, but also, to an extent, on the issuing state's power to require people to use or accept it in certain transactions.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Post by redisman » Fri, May 14, 2021, 1:42 AM UTC

soheil wrote: post #466

rchaud wrote: post #164

Musk blaming excessive energy use for withdrawing from BTC sounds like a ruse, considering that he of all people absolutely knew that going in. I smell Teslacoin in the works. A ostensibly green cryptocurrency, with his face on it.

Yeah but what does him buying/selling bitcoin have to do with a Tesla coin? He could have announced a new coin without risking alienating bitcoin or $tsla retail investors.

He can tank BTC further by dumping all Tesla holdings and at the same time announce the new much better Teslacoin. Every news outlet will post a front page “BTC crashes, Teslacoin up infinite%”. Then the goal would be to capture the majority of the crypto market. It would be like another “ICO” for Tesla to get a huge shot in the arm

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Post by _7fvc » Fri, May 14, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

liquidise wrote: post #8

My hot-take having watched the culling from an invested position follows. Disclaimer: i hold both BTC and ETH. While the market in general is down, the major losses in this crash were Bitcoin, Doge and Shiba. Bitcoin is an obvious result given the news. Doge and Shiba have had pretty spectacular gains over the last ~30d and seeing them lose considerable value is unsurprising if you follow crypto markets much. Seeming…

I have the opposite take. In bull runs, the market swings between BTC and altcoins. Dogecoin rise unintentionally benefits ETH. It weakened Bitcoin but strengthens Dogecoin and Ethereum. With this crash, people will realize that BTC is the crypto that matters. BTC runs the market. The FUD will cause people to flock to BTC. But that's just a guess. Anything can happen in crypto.