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I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

theguardian.com

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Re: I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

#481

Post by tirant »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #453
usgroup wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the romance, but those of us who have children leave behind much more than stone walls we built in our 20s. He’s a 72 year old Batchelor who’s once stepped foot outside a Welsh valley. If happiness is a lobotomy then credit to us who don’t choose it.

> those of us who have children leave behind much more than stone walls we built in our 20s Ah, yes. A planet completely ruined by overpopulation. That is your legacy. Also, your existence is just as meaningless as this farmer's. You probably remember your grandparents, at least you know a little about their lives. What about your grandparents parents, or your grandparents grandparents. They were people with their ow…

It saddens me to read such nihilistic comments here. Specially based on such clichés.

Under which metric is the planet complete ruined? and why do you think it's overpopulated? what's then the maximum number of people that should live on this planet according to you, and based on what?

Under lots of metrics, today's planet is a much healthier and prosperous place to live for humankind than it was 100 or even 50 years ago. As an example, for most human history life expectancy was no more than 30 years. Nowadays we are around 70 and quite some countries already over 80. Poverty was common some centuries ago, with around 90% being considered poor. Nowadays it's only around 10% of population. Literacy has also advanced tremendously, with now around 90% of people under 25 being able to read and write.

And all of that has been happening thanks to those that were here before us. Yes, the ones we have forgotten their names, but for whom we live now in the capable and free societies that are most of the western countries.

Having children is an extremely important part of that legacy. They are the immediate inheritors of the ideals and visions of the ones that were here before us.

Re: I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

#482

Post by tirant »

layer8 wrote: post #475
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those of us who have children leave behind much more than stone walls we built in our 20s Ah, yes. A planet completely ruined by overpopulation. That is your legacy. Also, your existence is just as meaningless as this farmer's. You probably remember your grandparents, at least you know a little about their lives. What about your grandparents parents, or your grandparents grandparents. They were people with their ow…

Also, after a couple generations the ancestors become so many that the "legacy" contribution from a given ancestor to a given descendant becomes statistically negligible.

If that would be true, we would all be living in stone age.

Re: I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

#483

Post by LocalH »

randompwd wrote: post #410
kebman wrote: post #399

Ah, the simple life... My grandfather would take me along and we'd go to the neighbour to fetch eggs. He had a plastic bucket that he put them in with some old newspapers scraps in the bottom. I heard that before the war they didn't even need money. He'd simply bring a bucket of milk, and he'd get a bucket of eggs in return. But it was of course a lot simpler to bring money. It was far cheaper than in the store too.…

> One day, the grouse was seen perching atop the family house. When I told this to my grandmother, she went silent at first, and then she told me that it means someone will die in the family. This was of course terrifying news to me. But it also turned out to become true, because my grandfather also died that year. Do you actually believe the grouse perching on house was foreshadowing??

Everything is filtered through human perception and pattern-matching. Everything. There's a difference between groupthink religion (which tends to spread exponentially when unchecked) and harmless little beliefs like this. So what if someone notices a pattern where there isn't one?

It's known that animals can sense certain scents that can indeed be foreshadowing of death or health decline. Isn't it even the slightest bit possible that the grouse may have smelled something that humans couldn't begin to perceive? More importantly, do you have any proof or knowledge that would actively disprove this? No, that's not a requirement in science, but it is a handy discussion aid.

Re: I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

#484

Post by akudha »

mrphoebs wrote: post #357
usgroup wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the romance, but those of us who have children leave behind much more than stone walls we built in our 20s. He’s a 72 year old Batchelor who’s once stepped foot outside a Welsh valley. If happiness is a lobotomy then credit to us who don’t choose it.

Children as your legacy are no less consequential or meaningful than this man's stone walls. In the end you are grasping for empty meaning and purpose in the same way the farmer is, your children will perish, their children will perish, you will be forgotten and so will they like the rest of human existence. Our lives have no larger purpose or meaning beyond what ever we pretend gives meaning to your life, like child…

A different perspective is - why do I need to leave something behind (children or otherwise)? What matters is how I spent the little time I have on this planet, while I am alive, isn't it? Why do I care what happens after I am gone? There are enough things to think about, to work on, while I am alive. As long as I am happy and helpful while I am alive, that seems more important to me than anything else.

Re: I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

#485

Post by DoingIsLearning »

jim-jim-jim wrote: post #452
kebman wrote: post #399

Ah, the simple life... My grandfather would take me along and we'd go to the neighbour to fetch eggs. He had a plastic bucket that he put them in with some old newspapers scraps in the bottom. I heard that before the war they didn't even need money. He'd simply bring a bucket of milk, and he'd get a bucket of eggs in return. But it was of course a lot simpler to bring money. It was far cheaper than in the store too.…

Are you talking about European or Australian magpies?

Grouse only exist in the northern hemisphere so it will likely be some type of Euro-Asian magpie.

Re: I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

#486

Post by jorvi »

usgroup wrote: post #286
telesilla wrote: post #266

"This valley is cut in the shape of my heart". I've known farmers like him, bachelors who are mild mannered and love their lives and the extended family that comes with living an entire life in one valley. He maybe goes to Sunday service for socialization and the local pub to watch the game, and as long as his sheep are healthy and the sky does what it promises (because he knows the day before always if it will rain)…

I appreciate the romance, but those of us who have children leave behind much more than stone walls we built in our 20s. He’s a 72 year old Batchelor who’s once stepped foot outside a Welsh valley. If happiness is a lobotomy then credit to us who don’t choose it.

Children aren't much of a legacy either. They have 50% of your DNA and nurture. Grandkids 25%. Grand-grandkids 12.5%. Within a few generations your contribution is watered down to almost nil. Children are amazing in their own right, but they're not exactly a legacy. If you want legacy, write a good book, start a successful company, etc; ideas are things that can become legacy.

Re: I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

#487

Post by joeberon »

raffraffraff wrote: post #349
beaner wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a close-minded view. Children are great but they're just more people with their own experiences, like this man. And it seems rare these days that they might be as naturally at-one with the world around them as he is.

I hear you. In not sure if want to be raising kids today. I had a moment in my 20s where I just stopped and thought, "Every single ancestor I had from my parents back to algae had offspring. What if I don't?" If you consider the whole Ocean as history, and the present moment as a single solitary wave heading towards the shore, and your life as the surfer on that wave, it doesn't matter what came before you. What matt…

For me it was just a realisation that reproduction is just one way we pass ourselves on, but one that has a lot of evolutionary push to make us want to do. For me, I was just born without that push for whatever reason. I'm not sure if it's a symptom of undiagnosed asperger's that I suspect or some other thing like that. Regardless of the reasons why I don't possess that drive, I don't think children are the only way we pass on. In fact I think every action we do is a form of reproduction, including building stone walls. Maybe people think that there is something inherently different between biologically producing a living being and other forms of interacting with the world but I don't believe so personally.

In terms of your moment in your 20s, the way I see it is that it goes beyond my conventional existence as a human: I'm not just the product of all my direct ancestors, but also of all the causes and effects which have effected those ancestors. It's obvious that I am the continuation of my great great great grandfather, however I am also the continuation of my great great great grandfathers lunch that fed him, or doctor that saved him, or the Sun that supported him. Reproduction is an essential component for continued existence of sentient beings, but so is food, so is warmth, so is water. I feel that the Sun is just as much my parent as my biological parents.

Re: I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

#488

Post by xfer »

krimbus wrote: post #420
mrphoebs wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children as your legacy are no less consequential or meaningful than this man's stone walls. In the end you are grasping for empty meaning and purpose in the same way the farmer is, your children will perish, their children will perish, you will be forgotten and so will they like the rest of human existence. Our lives have no larger purpose or meaning beyond what ever we pretend gives meaning to your life, like child…

Yet, our very existence is a consequence of reproduction, even if we may have forgotten our ancestors. The only true delusion of grandeur is thinking that dwindling others' experiences against the vastness of the universe is enlightenment: If we don't experience our existence in geological/cosmic time scales, why waste time believing we are mere blips?

> Yet, our very existence is a consequence of reproduction

It's a consequence of evolution. Right now we are limited yes. But nobody knows future.

> If we don't experience our existence in geological/cosmic time scales

Feel free to experience your existence without deriding others existence.

Re: I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

#489

Post by zikzak »

x3iv130f wrote: post #414
randompwd wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One day, the grouse was seen perching atop the family house. When I told this to my grandmother, she went silent at first, and then she told me that it means someone will die in the family. This was of course terrifying news to me. But it also turned out to become true, because my grandfather also died that year. Do you actually believe the grouse perching on house was foreshadowing??

Could be a gentle way for an elder to let their grandchild know that they are passing soon. Does the Grouse know? Probably not. The grandmother would though.

We had similar sayings around the number of crows you'd see together. As I got older, I realized if you spend enough time outside you'll see any combination of crows you might need to fit the rhyme and have a little talk.

One for sorrow, Two for joy, Three for a girl, Four for a boy, Five for silver, Six for gold, Seven for a secret never to be told.

We would say "Crow" instead of "for".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_for_Sorrow_%28nursery_rhym...

Re: I’ve had the same supper for 10 years

#490

Post by float4 »

p1mrx wrote: post #367
justapassenger wrote: post #23

I often envy people like him. Working in tech it’s very hard not to get lost in rat race and always go for more money, more knowledge, more everything. I’m actively trying to avoid it, but it gets to me as well. And most of my friends think I’m weird that I don’t want to get one more promotion or why I don’t want to push myself outside of my comfort zone. I’m fine where I am.

I was basically doing that in tech: working for food and a place to be. It was like living in a VM. After 2020 and 14 months of isolation, I'm retiring. Need to find a real place.

I'm about to start working (in tech) soon, and I know the exact same thing will happen to me.

Just don't know what to do instead.

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