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How Basecamp Blew Up

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Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(laughs) "Politicians and activists" obviously didn't politicize masks. No coherent reading of the last 2 years supports that conclusion. It was the screeching Republican base, who decided on day one that the masks were a symbol of government overreach and I guess got Covid to own the libs.

You think the base got there all on their own, miraculously? The had activists that saw this as a way to push their agenda, and politicians that went along for the ride and reinforced it. The base is multiple tens of millions of people spread across the entire United States and in many socioeconomic strata. The only time anything gets as widespread acceptance by even a portion of the base like the mask thing is becau…

> You think the base got there all on their own,

Yes, more or less? I can't think of a single right-wing activist or politician who was truly rabble-rousing for the cause.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#482

Honestly, in this story everyone looks like a big child. I would maybe be more sympathetic to DHH if it wasn't the guy who was so opinionated he pushed through Rails features that everyone else disliked or co-wrote several books on company culture that are glorified ads for basecamp (although "it doesn't have to be crazy at work" is still a thought-provoking read, at least in part). I can only imagine that he might b…

This dynamic is playing out in thousands of companies and startups across the US. Many people in the US, the woke, have redefined "white supremacy" and "racism" to mean most inequalities and behavior that they don't like: They do not accept non-racist environments, only anti-racist ones. They do not accept that businesses be politically neutral. Businesses must take political stances internally and publicly. To do an…

>They do not accept non-racist environments, only anti-racist ones. They do not accept that businesses be politically neutral.

Perhaps they are the ones working toward a politically neutral, non-racist environment, and it is you who won't accept it.

In truth, I don't believe either they or you could properly identify what a politically neutral environment really looks like, and you're probably all unreliable and serving your own ends.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But this is (was) a 60-person company. That's about the size of the company I'm currently working at. In other words, you should know everyone and interact with a sizeable chunk of these people somewhat regularly. It strikes me as very odd that you would suddenly so fundamentally distrust your co-workers with whom you share so much. But I'm also not in the US and maybe this is just the current climate over the…

I work at a Fortune 500 company that has gone woke, complete with critical race theory training. I'm literally the only white person in my department. I'm the racial minority. Do you think any of the training even considered that a possibility? Before this change in the company I had never even noticed my race in relation to my coworkers and I absolutely hate them for bringing it to my attention and forcing me agains…

Congratulations, you have an opportunity to experience what it feels like to work in tech as a person of color, or a woman, or any of the many other underrepresented groups in tech. Only those people experience every day at almost all companies, and can't escape it by leaving their existing company.

Maybe see it as a chance to learn and grow instead of something to resent and run from?

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#484
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they might be alluding to things like "kill all landlords" which are I suppose jokes for some and simply calls to action for others.

I'd love to see an example of a landlord being killed as a result of such a "call to action" from a political movement. I can point to numerous people being killed by calls to action around abortion.

And how many were killed because they were on a funny name list?

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#485

I feel bad for everyone involved. This story made me realize that working at Basecamp is not something I would want to do in the future, primarily because DHH and Fried are so egotistic. However, it also makes me face the reality that I would not want to work with many of the people that resigned. Resigning over a random employee refusing to say that "white supremacy exists" is absurd. I imagine myself working at som…

Most CEOs are egotistic. Most of the ones I have worked for are actually beyond that, they are narcissistic to the point of sociopathy.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#486
post #279

I feel bad for everyone involved. This story made me realize that working at Basecamp is not something I would want to do in the future, primarily because DHH and Fried are so egotistic. However, it also makes me face the reality that I would not want to work with many of the people that resigned. Resigning over a random employee refusing to say that "white supremacy exists" is absurd. I imagine myself working at som…

I doubt most of the people who resigned resigned because of that employee. They probably resigned because DHH decided that, because the discussion had made him uncomfortable, no one should be able to discuss anything "political" at work anymore. That's a very "take your ball and go home" attitude which I wouldn't want in my employer either. And given that this seems to be pretty normal behaviour for him, it was proba…

This was my thought too. The guys at the top just might be arrogant and difficult. My opinion is that Singer wouldn’t say “white supremacy exists” not because he’s a white supremacist, as people keeps interpreting this, but because he didn’t want to be told what to do by an underling. Trump did the same thing in interviews, press conferences, and I think even in a debate.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#487
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't significantly worked with Rails since 2015, so I'm not up to speed with the current state of things, but in general I found that architecturally Rails can scale mostly okay, although it can be a bit tricky if you're not very familiar with the Rails internals, but it's not overly complex either in my experience. I was never a Rails super-expert either, and I managed to bolt on plenty of stuff for customers'…

Rails is ultimately just a collection of libraries + some glue code, tooling etc., so you can, of course, build a well-architected Rails app with some discipline. What I'm criticising is that a lot of the official guides (and/or DHH himself) often lead to problems down the road. For example, it is encouraged to do things through model callbacks. Except, once you have your send_email logic in a after_create callback a…

Yeah, I agree the MVC model in Rails is too simplistic. I never liked how everything is stuffed in models; back in Rails 3 (or 2?) it was even worse. I actually wrote a library to solve part of this, which inserted a "form" layer between the controllers and models. It worked quite well.[1]

Actually, Ruby on Rails in general is often "Rails + these 20 gems that everyone uses". I remember someone likening getting started with practical real-world Rails development as starting in Game of Thrones in the middle of season 5, which sounds about right to me.

[1]: https://github.com/bluerail/form_this

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#488
post #232

Do what I did in February: Quit. Life's too short to waste time at a company that's forgotten it's purpose. This ideology borders on cult like. A good sign that you are dealing with an irrational ideology is non-sensical, illogical and inconsisten rules. For example, in this article, "Black" is capitalized everywhere its mentioned, and "white" isn't. There's nothing logically consistent about this, because it's a bor…

it's completely religious - prophets, sacred texts, heresies. Going to quit after vacation this summer by just not showing up. See how long that lasts

Yes!! I highly encourage this decision. Everyone will be happier--it's the free market at work.

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The capitalization of Black is becoming increasingly accepted editorially due to its similarities to otherwise capitalized words like Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Marxist, Irish, etc. Essentially, a culturally distinct body of people. "white" isn't capitalized because it doesn't bear as much similarities to those words, as "white" is not a cultural identity.

> "white" isn't capitalized because it doesn't bear as much similarities to those words It is precisely the same as black. The mental gymnastics on display here are astonishing.

It's a replacement for the term "African American", which is the best way to think of it and why it's capitalized.

A good number of major publications have posted explanations for the editorial change:

https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-cultures-race-and-e...

https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b-black-styleguide.php

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/05/insider/capitalized-black...

Re: How Basecamp Blew Up

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, in this story everyone looks like a big child. I agree for the most part there. Less so the founders, I think there sin runs more along the lines of being extremely naive (but in a way a lot of people might be, especially when the alternative might be to accept you're screwed). > something must have gone fundamentally wrong much earlier. These levels of tension and distrust don't just arise out of nowhere…

> Less so the founders, I think there sin runs more along the lines of being extremely naive Fried and DHH are a lot of things, but naive isn’t one of them.

There are a lot of dimensions to naivety. DHH has certainly struck me as naive in his arrogant confidence in the past (regarding TDD), and it sounds like he was naive in his approach to a major cultural change at his company. Naive not because he handled it badly, but because he seemed unaware that it needed to be handled delicately.
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