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Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

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Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farmland owned by city banks. Can we just stop with this BS? Human civilization is the tale of cities- has been for 5000 years.

> Farmland owned by city banks. Can we just stop with this BS? The idea that the city banks are going to come operate (or, in fact, even own ) the rural farmland is BS. If the pandemic hasn't demonstrated to you how fragile the global supply chain is, I'm not sure what to tell you. People have been unsupported by cities for a lot longer than 5000 years.

The resiliency of the global supply chain this past year has actually blown my mind. The worst US consumers saw was, what, paper towel and toilet paper shortages for a couple months?

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ERCOT's dismal failure the past several months has once again shown the fallacy of this thinking. Raising prices to infinity cannot induce supply of a good or service for which there is simply no capacity to provision. Nor does discrimination by price for life's essentials result in fair or equitable distribution when there is a tremendous inequality in purchasing power among the population, much if that itself the r…

“fallacy”? Or just an edge case? Are you really claiming that increased electricity prices wouldn’t increase supply of electricity in the long-run?

Electricity must be on 24/7/365.

Brief periodic outages may be acceptable.

Portions of Texas were without power for weeks. Because of predictable cold well within historical experience.

The market as designed per "prices will induce supply" failed. And no price incentive will create gigawatts of generating capacity in minutes to hours.

Just as nine women cannot make a baby in one month.

Some processes require time and/or advanced planning.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#483
post #160

There seems to be a lot of negativity in the comments so far. Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? I'm personally doing just this. I was lucky enough to land a good job out of college, buy a house in a desired area, and see it appreciate in the last 10 years. This increase plus the birth of my kids left me wondering if there wasn't a better…

I honestly don't get a lot of the comments on this thread. So, say I can work remote or retire and live basically anywhere I want. Is the suggestion that I have some moral obligation to live somewhere that's already expensive?

I think the point is to not be surprised by the disdain from people you're pushing out who want to live simple lives near their friends and family in their communities, and aren't choosing location based on how "cheap" it is compared to the big city.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The western united states maintained its wilderness areas through a culture of conservationism that isn't remotely respected by the new arrivals. I've spent the last two decades watching paradise be paved for a parking lot.

The wilderness areas were maintained by not having a lot of people. US added 100M people in the last 40 years, and a lot of them seem to like the Western states' scenery, terrain, and weather. 1980 census shows just over 40M in the west: https://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/1981-02.pdf page 6 2019 figures show nearly 80M in the west: https://www.census.gov/popclock/data_tables.php?component=gr... https://…

I suggest without proof that the west could accommodate more people without adverse effects on the environment if construction preferences were different.

The new construction methods, building types, and communal land management strategies that are preferred by implants have an outsized effect on the environment. Compare the new construction in Vail to the older buildings, which can still be seen in smaller towns.

I would prefer building preferences to become more harmonious with the natural environment instead of less.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#485
post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ERCOT's dismal failure the past several months has once again shown the fallacy of this thinking. Raising prices to infinity cannot induce supply of a good or service for which there is simply no capacity to provision. Nor does discrimination by price for life's essentials result in fair or equitable distribution when there is a tremendous inequality in purchasing power among the population, much if that itself the r…

> There's another market mechanism for addressing probabalistic risks, which is to prepare in advance And that means that someone has to pay the costs of doing that. In a free market economy, the people who do the preparing in advance are called "speculators", and they are rewarded or penalized by standard market mechanisms according to how well they prepare. Those standard market mechanisms include being able to cha…

Speculation is one mechanism.

Risk assessment (actuarial, engineering, policy, financial) is another. The insurance industry generally is a vehicle for manifesting dispersed or time-variant risks in a predictable fashion, enabling both proper accounting and (as discussed in my earlier comment) management.

Speculation alone cannot do that, though it is also a component of the risk sector.

(My somewhat unorthodox view is that the FIRE sectore, finance, insurance, and real estate, are all fundamentally about risk, in ways other economic activity is not.)

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#486
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this not the dream that is often touted on hacker news? Work at a FAANG and "retire" somewhere more affordable? Practically, probably not. Few people talk about that, most dont. Most will move for affordable, but wont necessary like abrupt change from FAANG and big city to small city and not much to do. They will need to adjust to different culture, new hobbies, find new friends, everything. And that is not even…

What would a small city not have to do that big city would? Or do you mean a small town. Also, what hobbies would have to be given up?

I would say a lack of buffer capacity from fewer options for a given thing is huge. I've lived in small cities and currently live in a huge one. In a small city, yes, you might have one of most of your hobbies represented. But maybe there is literally only one Indian restaurant, only one golf course, only one movie theater, only one bar, only one car dealership, only one grocery store, etc. If that one thing sucks, you have literally no alternative. You have to deal with it.

Versus in the city I live in now, there are almost a dozen public courses in a reasonable drive. Dozens of car dealerships. Dozens of hiking trails. Dozens of beaches. Dozens and dozens of everything. I can vet options. I can do the same activity in different settings easily. If I am in one area of town, I have flexibility to find options in that area rather than going with my usual option close to me. I have choice. I have agency. I can take my business elsewhere if I need to, and come out better from it thanks to this huge population being able to support a variety of choices for any niche interest I might have.

And of course in the old days the argument was you could just make do with online shopping. But these days the signal to noise ratio on the internet is so pathetically low, I really value actually holding an object I buy in my hand before I get fleeced buying something online once again. Reviews can't be trusted. Images can't be trusted. I trust my eyes and my hands and if the price is fair, taking it home with me is the best deal on shipping there is. Being in a huge city means there are a lot of brick and mortar businesses. Businesses that probably closed years ago with the death of main streets in smaller cities and towns, but thrive here thanks to a huge population being able to sustain more businesses in a given area, even if many people opt to online shop.

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#487

I envy the folks who are able to do this. If I had the means, I'd probably have already fled back to the country. I can't help but think that it is unsustainable though. Supporting a large, rural population is less efficient than urbs or even suburbs. Global warming, increasing global competition... I can't help but think the people fleeing the cities will be forced back by incentives and economics in a decade.

> Supporting a large, rural population is less efficient than urbs or even suburbs. Whenever I see statement like this, it makes me wonder if you know where your food comes from. Because for the most part, the rural populations are supporting the cities. If the supply chains in this country were to fail, it is not the rural communities who would be scrounging for food and water. We'd be just fine.

Yes, some people do need to work on farms so that everyone can eat. Improvements in agriculture technology over the last 5000 years mean farms require much less human labor than in the past. So today, we don't need a "large, rural population".

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't care who lives here. That's actually what I like the most about rural living - for the most part if you leave people alone, they'll leave you alone. What I do care about is that the people I grew up with literally cannot afford their taxes anymore Not meaning to pick on you, but this is almost exactly the rhetoric that got California into the situation it is in now. * Taxes going up due to newcomers -> cap…

Why not base the the revenue on income taxes instead - charge the people making money instead of forcing people out of their home through taxes? The main issues (in my opinion) with housing in the parts of CA that are always mentioned is just population density and desired living conditions. I don't see what the right fix is for that. If we're basically taking the policy that we'll raise taxes to make people want to…

> Why not base the the revenue on income taxes instead

Yup, California does that. That's why CA has a reputation as a high-tax state. Although total tax burden isn't that different from places like Austin, TX though (at least that's how the numbers come out when my friend or I have seriously looked into moving there).

> I don't see what the right fix is for that.

Ha. People have been shouting it from the rooftops. Build more houses! More specifically, just allow people to build more houses. Stop preventing people from building more houses.

Frankly, that's really the only solution. If you have n households in a country, you need approximately n homes to put them in. Be careful where you share this fact though, or you'll be labeled as part of the "growth at all costs" crowd.

> then why not take the policy to restrict the offices that draw them there in the first place?

Because the reality of the situation is that local governments need tax dollars to run services that taxpayers expect (roads, sewers, schools). There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. But voters hate paying higher income taxes. You've also capped property taxes on existing development. So the way local mayors and city councils fill the gap is by allowing development that requires relatively less city services: retail and commercial space.

Of course, now people need to commute to those retail and commercial developments, (because you have limited the amount of housing) so you just created a traffic problem (but, hey, term limits are a great and your successor can deal with it!).

> Spreading it out instead of concentrating it would provide relief.

Lol. Sure, but that's what this whole thread is about! People complaining when other people spread out to get relief, and how property taxes are going up and we need to Do Something to stop it god damn it!

And the cycle begins again...

Re: Small cities in America’s Mountain West are booming

#489

Are we still ignoring the ecological collapse that is caused by urban sprawl? We *must* increase the density of our cities. If you believe that the climate crisis is a problem and a big one, then you could be for a rude awakening as most experts now consider the collapse in biodiversity to have far bigger impacts on human lives and living conditions than climate change[0]. The only reason why there are fewer headline…

> We must increase the density of our cities. We could also try to make a few new cities, instead of ten thousand new suburbs

No reason to scar fresh land when we have plenty of land that is already well scarred, which could just have things like apartments over two stories tall legalized.
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