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Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

reuters.com

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Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#481

Post by blub »

hef19898 wrote: post #222
afavour wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as more blood-clot deaths emerge... you gotta think caution is wise. Last I saw it's 30 blood-clot deaths. Given the number of people that have received the vaccine that's a tiny, tiny amount. Even if those 30 were directly linkable to the vaccine (and so far no such link has been proven) you could still make the argument that the benefits of mass vaccinations outweigh the concern. I don't envy anyone in charge…

Some anti baby pills cause 8-12 trombose cases in 10,000 women. And they are properly tested, approved and on the market. Usually I don't read notes coming with meds, but I am almost sure that even everyday stuff has potentially deadly side effects in the ball park number of the blood cloths AZ is causing.

They're called contraceptives or birth control pills :-)

Yes, some drugs have pretty nasty side effects, but vaccines are rather special, because their acceptance affects the entire society and vaccine safety is a sensitive topic, especially in a climate of skepticism. Undermining the idea of vaccine safety will be much worse than Covid (at least at this time).

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#482

Post by rleigh »

h3cate wrote: post #359
string wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it reduces transmissibility.

Really? Do you want to link the evidence suggesting that?

Really? We have over 200 years of vaccine use in public health programmes to control contagious disease. The most effective medical treatment humanity has ever devised. That has completely eliminated some of the most transmissible and debilitating diseases on the planet. Go and read a book on the subject, it's not like it's secret arcane knowledge. Reducing transmissibility is a basic (and bloody obvious) consequence of acquired immunity. If a vaccinated individual is reinfected, then compared to an unvaccinated individual the time to eliminate the virus is greatly reduced and the window of transmissibility is greatly reduced.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#483

Post by ficklepickle »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #293
HenryBemis wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>can blunt your immune system response (Not a doctor) From listening to the "Faucis" of various countries (incuding the original): I believe that the vaccine is not a watered down virus , so technically you are not making yourself vulnerable/more sensitive to the virus. It is suppsed to 'teach' your body how to build the defence. Only the Chinese virus is a 'watered down' version of the virus. All the others (includi…

What in the world are you going on about? Drugs can make your immune system's response less severe--this is straight medical fact, look up diphenhydramine (benadryl) or anti-histamines in general. No where did I say any of these vaccines are 'live' or even attenuated coronavirus. It is 100% impossible to get infected with covid-19 from any of the vaccines. However it is possible to take a drug which lowers your immun…

From the CDC:

"If the rash is itchy, you can take an antihistamine. If it is painful, you can take a pain medication like acetaminophen or a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID)."

No need for speculation. RTFM applies here, too.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/al...

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#484

Post by m34 »

neuronic wrote: post #238
hef19898 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in deed we have. As does France.

Historically interesting: In the Soviet GDR there was a 95%+ vaccination rate and people trust Russian/Soviet vaccine science (I am from the region). Introducing Sputnik V to Germany may boost vaccine acceptance in the East. The majority of the vocal deniers is localized around Munich btw, same with homeopathy advocates. Not sure why that is but I suspect 1888's medicine book by Eduard Bilz, which was extremely popul…

Interesting. Didn't know about it being this localized.

[1] has a chart showing the percentage of kids born in 2012 getting full measles vaccination within their first two years by county.

[1] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/oberbayern-murnau-hauptst...

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#485

Post by rleigh »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #357
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THat works great if you don't die. That doesn't work so great if you don't die and have lifelong complications, though. It doesn't work so great if you get it and kill your child/grandmother either. It doesn't work so well if you have to catch the virus multiple times to have immunity either (folks aren't always immune after catching it). Not to mention the unknowns with mutations of the virus. It is seriously much b…

You can calculate the risk for yourself, based on data from the UK: https://qcovid.org/Calculation eg. 30 year old healthy white male: 1 in 7,092 risk of hospitalisation, 1 in 250,000 risk of death. By contrast the risk of death from anything for a 30 year old male in the UK is 1 in 1,215: http://www.bandolier.org.uk/booth/Risk/dyingage.html Even taking a healthy 80 year old male, the risk of death from COVID is 1 in…

You also need to bear in mind that it's much more subtle than the "risk of death". If you're vaccinated, the symptoms and complications are greatly reduced even in younger age groups. So a small risk is reduced to a tiny risk.

But it's not just about the risk to the individual. It's about the risk to the population as a whole. Both of these risks need to be balanced.

While the vaccine might not /appear/ to be worth it at a young age, by getting vaccinated and blocking the transmission of the virus you are protecting the population at large. From that perspective, not getting vaccinated is actually very selfish (using the exact meaning of the word).

People need to look at both the personal and societal aspects of the vaccination strategy. There will be social pressure to be vaccinated because it's not just about you, it's about everyone, and if we are to reopen society and get back to normal, then the expectation is that nearly all of us will need to get vaccinated.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#486

Post by ficklepickle »

raducu wrote: post #190
fab1an wrote: post #133

Looks like this may be a bit more relevant than many of the snarky comments would suggest - the relevant German authority on this said that they have seen a unexpected increase in a specific type of blood clotting issue that usually is very rare: https://www.pei.de/DE/newsroom/hp-meldungen/2021/210315-voru...

I'm set to take the oxford d vaccine, but I could also take the pfizer vaccine. I've had elevated blood markers for clotting during covid-19, and now I hear of this. I'm thinking of taking 75 mg aspirin, before and after the vaccine. On the other hand, the issue is the patients have low platelet count and I understand that this is the way aspirin reduces blod clotting. So, do these patients have low platelet count be…

This CDC link basically says NSAIDs and antihistamines are fine

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/al...

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#487

Post by Spare_account »

finolex1 wrote: post #418
tazjin wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the risk is minuscule compared to COVID-19 itself You don't know this at all - we don't know what age groups are affected here, and COVID is pretty much negligible in many younger age groups. It's best to wait for more data to come in before drawing any conclusions.

Then why not temporarily suspend vaccinations only for those under 40? Or let people have a choice in determining whether the risk is worth it for them.

(preface to state that my personal opinion supports taking the vaccine)

>Or let people have a choice in determining whether the risk is worth it for them.

Are there any countries where the vaccine is mandatory? That choice already exists doesn't it?

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#488

Post by blub »

JacobSuperslav wrote: post #353
ktybdr wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are definitely people with the view that they should be mandatory and I've personally started to encounter social pressure to get vaccinated, which I don't want to do, because I lead a low-contact hermit's life and the odds of dying from COVID which I probably won't catch if I maintain my lifestyle a few more months appears to be lower than the chance I'll die from a vaccine that I definitely get For my age coh…

vaccines aren't only about your safety

They're firstly about one's safety and the rest is a bonus.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#489

Post by blub »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #255
hatch_q wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the real risk here is that the lever will get stuck. Even if 1 person dies from vaccine - it can create huge, long-lasting case against vaccination, causing more people to choose not to vaccinate and eventually killing a lot more people. There must be no doubts with vaccines, 100% trust in them is essential.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the great.

We're not doing great at all at vaccine acceptance...

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#490

Post by blub »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #357
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THat works great if you don't die. That doesn't work so great if you don't die and have lifelong complications, though. It doesn't work so great if you get it and kill your child/grandmother either. It doesn't work so well if you have to catch the virus multiple times to have immunity either (folks aren't always immune after catching it). Not to mention the unknowns with mutations of the virus. It is seriously much b…

You can calculate the risk for yourself, based on data from the UK: https://qcovid.org/Calculation eg. 30 year old healthy white male: 1 in 7,092 risk of hospitalisation, 1 in 250,000 risk of death. By contrast the risk of death from anything for a 30 year old male in the UK is 1 in 1,215: http://www.bandolier.org.uk/booth/Risk/dyingage.html Even taking a healthy 80 year old male, the risk of death from COVID is 1 in…

I bet the risks for flu are even lower than that and I still get the vaccine every year like clockwork. Because having the disease sucks and can leave you with long-term sequelae.

The fact that we have insufficiently tested vaccines does make the decision harder.

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