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Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

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Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#481

Post by akudha »

throwaway53086 wrote: post #31

Anyone with young boys and girls will notice that girls are much more likely to obey rules and instructions. A lot of doing well in school is about following rules and instructions, and it seems pretty natural that girls will do better. Also, most teachers are women. I haven't checked, but I'd assume most school administrators are women. It seems natural that they'd construct a system that's more suited for females t…

Another thing I've noticed is that girls are generally much better at taking exams than boys. I don't have any numbers, just from observation - from my own school days, from observing my niece/nephew. It is super painful to get my nephew to do the homework vs my niece, for example.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#482

Post by [deleted] »

The_rationalist wrote: post #335
f430 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the mind has no gender so how can cognition be considered different across genders? hmmm

Male and female brains while similar have some significant differences that goes beyond the androgen proportion differences. This has nothing to do with the gender identity as someone else pointed out.

[deleted]

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#483

Post by chewxy »

zionic wrote: post #337
908B64B197 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With shrinking recess time and PE disappearing from some schools, I also wonder if a lot of this is caused by boys having more energy and needing more movement than girls. Energy has to go somewhere so it ends up manifesting itself in behaviors that are deemed "disruptive" (really, not sitting still and being unable to concentrate on tasks). Maybe it's something that female administrators and teachers fail to underst…

Future generations will consider us barbarians for dosing our young boys with drugs because we providing them with physical education/exercise was inconvenient to us. They'll also be able to datamine the internet from this time period and use our own words to hang us.

Runnning around does not make a child with ADHD more sedate or perform better in the classroom. "Just go do some exercise" is like telling depressed people to "just cheer up".

Yes, exercise definitely helps. But it doesn't make one's mind less noisy internally. Buddhists talk of monkey minds. ADHD is like having a zoo of minds.

This anti-medication bias is causing a lot of stigma in society for children who actually need them.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#484

Post by TeMPOraL »

hc-taway wrote: post #471
TeMPOraL wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the medication. If they're on stims in particular, and the meds actually improve their behavior, then the cause most likely isn't insufficient PE time.

The effect of amphetamines on kids with ADHD is to improve school performance. The effect of amphetamines on kids without ADHD is to improve school performance. The effect of amphetamines on kids without ADHD but who've been diagnosed with ADHD because they're not getting enough exercise is... to improve school performance.

Amphetamines aren't magic. There are qualitative differences in response between people with and without ADHD, that manifest across the board, not just on few school metrics - and a psychiatrist will be able to see them.

The "young unruly boys without enough PE" is a well-known trope, and modern school is very much kid torture - but I'm not willing to say yet that we're medicating children too much, when the world is only slowly waking up to the fact that we've been underdiagnosing ADHD by at least factor of 2 - this stereotype of unruly boys means the Primarily Inattentive subtype of ADHD is being frequently ignored (vs. the Primarily Hyperactive that creates all the stereotypes), that girls suffering from ADHD are not being diagnosed, not to mention adults.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#485

Post by xtracto »

jpxw wrote: post #362
szhu wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, why is this a data point we are required to ignore? There's been a lot of discourse about bias lately, so I feel like this is a data point people will welcome hearing. Thanks for sharing it.

If the poster works at a big tech company, there’s a reasonable chance they could get fired for bringing up a point like that. That’s the world we live in now.

Right, I wish there could be a place where these sort of things could be discussed without the stigmas of "discrimination".

My wife and I talk about these sort of things sometimes: We believe there are differences between man and woman (and between different human descents, like people from the mayan descent [from where I am from] are shorter, while people from Germanic descent are taller, among others). That does not have to mean that one is better/worse than the other. But if society accepted and understood those differences, we could make better use of each feature for good.

This always reminds me of the equality vs equity cartoon ( http://www.vestidosdecordura.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/... )

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#486

Post by nottorp »

njdullea wrote: post #441
ganzuul wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't attribute any meaning to your post unless you tell us your gender.

I think the poster is making a comparison, and is therefor presumably male.

Yep, it would have made no sense otherwise.

But yes, to make it explicit, i'm the father.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#487

Post by theropost »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #178
endisneigh wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this take a few times and I don't really buy it. How exactly is school setup in a way that's more suitable for women compared to men? Everything you've stated (following rules and instructions, etc.) also applies in the workplace, so if you were correct you would the same sort of discrepancy in the workforce.

Everything you've stated (following rules and instructions, etc.) also applies in the workplace, so if you were correct you would the same sort of discrepancy in the workforce. In my working life every time I brazenly break the rules and ignore instructions I end up getting a raise, or promotion. This is across 5 or 6 jobs stretched out over 23 years in small businesses, and fortune 100 companies. This is because I a…

I agree totally - if you brazenly break the rules, you tend to get punished.. unless you back it up with real results. Disrupters tend to be the innovators in society. School does not value disrupters in the same way as a business might.

In a school setting, someone who listens, follows the rules, and does not challenge the structure of the institution is highly likely to receive excellent grades. In a business setting, this person may be an employee who contributes to the team by doing their job, and doing it accurately and consistently.

A disrupter may work in the same job, and challenge the way things are done - they may fail in doing so, and be repremanded or fired, or they may succeed in their disruption, and allow for a change in the process or job, resulting in greater efficiency.

This is the trade off in my humble opinion.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#488

Post by [deleted] »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #350
hc-taway wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two of my kids (one a boy and one a girl) act absolutely nuts and "must" have something like ADHD... until you make sure they run around outside at least 4hrs a day, consistently. Then they're fine. Unfortunately this is effectively impossible to achieve for 2-3 months every year, with school in session and short Winter days. They're in lower elementary school but I think their total recess time per day is only about…

As someone that didn't get their diagnosis until I was in my 30s, I'd encourage you to talk to a doctor about what's going on. It definitely sounds like ADHD, particularly the social stress triggering acting out or avoidance. On the whole I've been fortunate in life, but it's not an exaggeration to say my life would be dramatically different if I'd learned what was going on as a kid. Instead it was interpreted as a c…

[deleted]

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#489

Post by ZephyrBlu »

tester756 wrote: post #479
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because culturally the world (At least the western world) has the complete opposite attitude. Feelings are more important than facts to many people nowadays.

>Feelings are more important than facts to many people nowadays. is it good or bad in your opinion?

From what I've perceived it seems like in general it harms discourse more than it helps.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#490

Post by ScoobleDoodle »

chewxy wrote: post #483
zionic wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Future generations will consider us barbarians for dosing our young boys with drugs because we providing them with physical education/exercise was inconvenient to us. They'll also be able to datamine the internet from this time period and use our own words to hang us.

Runnning around does not make a child with ADHD more sedate or perform better in the classroom. "Just go do some exercise" is like telling depressed people to "just cheer up". Yes, exercise definitely helps. But it doesn't make one's mind less noisy internally. Buddhists talk of monkey minds. ADHD is like having a zoo of minds. This anti-medication bias is causing a lot of stigma in society for children who actually…

My understanding of the parent and grandparent comments are that they are lamenting that boys are being diagnosed and/or dosed with ADHD medication just because they aren't given time and space to work out their energy. So schools and society are dealing with fidgety unfocused boys by giving them false diagnosis and inappropriate medication.

This is all distinct from people who actually really have ADHD and in which case medications can be appropriate.

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